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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all:

TeslaFi just added a capability to compare your battery range to the rest of the fleet. When doing the comparison, it does so by comparing vehicles at similar odometer readings. I was rather surprised to find out that my car is at the 94th percentile. To the best of my knowledge the only thing that I do which might make a difference is that I rarely charge the car over 75% unless I need it on a given day (or days when I'm away and don't do my customary daily charging). I'll also note that my car is garage-kept but that doesn't explain things from a statistical POV.

Anyway, here's what TeslaFi says (Click on thumbnail to see charging records):
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I'm in the 8th percentile :-(

How is your charge count total at 100 when you've done over 20k mi? I'm at 10k mi and have 200 90% charges and 100 80%.
 

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I'm in the 8th percentile :-(

How is your charge count total at 100 when you've done over 20k mi? I'm at 10k mi and have 200 90% charges and 100 80%.
Teslafi only records the charges while it is logging the car. so if @potatoee signed up half way thru ownership, that would make sense (and the odometer numbers at the bottom start at 15k.)

now, the bigger question @potatoee - how are you charging/driving to have your battery at the top of the class? anything else of note besides the 75% charge limit?
(mine, depending on what I put in for settings/criteria lands in the bottom 13-20%).

here's my chart
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Teslafi only records the charges while it is logging the car. so if @potatoee signed up half way thru ownership, that would make sense (and the odometer numbers at the bottom start at 15k.)

now, the bigger question @potatoee - how are you charging/driving to have your battery at the top of the class? anything else of note besides the 75% charge limit?
(mine, depending on what I put in for settings/criteria lands in the bottom 13-20%).
It would seem he rarely went over 70% in the 10k or so mi that are shown, and averaged closer to a 65% charge. This would indicate, contrary to what Elon says, that charging to 90% does cause added degradation.
 

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I'm in the 8th percentile :-(
I'm worse than that.... but not the bottom (at least I have that!).

I try to follow what Tesla advises --
  • Keep the car plugged in when i can.
    • when away for extended period of time, plugged in and set to 50%
  • All other times, set at 90%
    • have never charged above 90%

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I'm worse than that.... but not the bottom (at least I have that!).

I try to follow what Tesla advises --
  • Keep the car plugged in when i can.
    • when away for extended period of time, plugged in and set to 50%
  • All other times, set at 90%
    • have never charged above 90%

View attachment 32527
No conclusive evidence, but it's sure feeling like the 90% charging CAN cause the extra degradation. Most of those I've seen that have had <5% degradation charge at 80% or below.
 
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Just tossing mine in. With being close to 50,000 miles, I have few fleet members. Earlier mileage points have over a hundred in the "fleet".

I have friends charging to 90%. I charge to 80%, and we have yet to see any appreciable difference between the two. Nothing wrong with charging to 90%.

I just finished a podcast episode that talks about daily charging habits with additional details (https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/lifewithmiddie/episodes/2020-02-26T21_38_25-08_00 ).

With several road trips ahead #MiddieTeslaRidesKCAutoShow, #MiddieGoesToFlorida, we'll see if I get to the point when Middie IS the fleet on Teslafi!
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm in the 8th percentile :-(

How is your charge count total at 100 when you've done over 20k mi? I'm at 10k mi and have 200 90% charges and 100 80%.
I only got TeslaFi this past September, ~ a year after I took delivery. Data shown indicates battery performance since I got TeslaFi
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Teslafi only records the charges while it is logging the car. so if @potatoee signed up half way thru ownership, that would make sense (and the odometer numbers at the bottom start at 15k.)

now, the bigger question @potatoee - how are you charging/driving to have your battery at the top of the class? anything else of note besides the 75% charge limit?
Ultimately, I cannot be certain as to why I'm doing well. All I can say is that I
  1. Keep it in the garage when not at work
  2. 65-75% charge limit
  3. Charge pretty much every day/night
  4. Drive like an old man (I really like to get as much efficiency out of the vehicle as possible) and deprive myself (most of the time :)) from leveraging the awesome performance of the vehicle.
  5. 95% of the time (just a guess) I don't get below 40% SOC.
  6. Acknowledge that I might merely be lucky
One last point. We should keep in mind that all of these numbers are based on estimates. I take these numbers as general guidance and a way to compare with different vehicles. I see unreconciled differences when I compare the Tesla "trip computer" to the Tesla "energy consumption display" to what TeslaFi is saying. For this reason, I don't take these numbers as absolutes.

One of these days, I hope to do a trip where, with one charge, I go from 100% SOC down to 10% and see what numbers I get.
 

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Ultimately, I cannot be certain as to why I'm doing well. All I can say is that I
  1. Keep it in the garage when not at work
  2. 65-75% charge limit
  3. Charge pretty much every day/night
  4. Drive like an old man (I really like to get as much efficiency out of the vehicle as possible) and deprive myself (most of the time :)) from leveraging the awesome performance of the vehicle.
  5. Acknowledge that I might merely be lucky
Same situation with me, but I charged to 90% and let it rip from time to time ;-)

What's your lifetime Wh/mi?

BTW, thanks for sharing the details. Always interesting to see how these marvels of technology behave based on the variables around each one.
 

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Ultimately, I cannot be certain as to why I'm doing well. All I can say is that I
  1. Keep it in the garage when not at work
  2. 65-75% charge limit
  3. Charge pretty much every day/night
  4. Drive like an old man (I really like to get as much efficiency out of the vehicle as possible) and deprive myself (most of the time :)) from leveraging the awesome performance of the vehicle.
  5. 95% of the time (just a guess) I don't get below 40% SOC.
  6. Acknowledge that I might merely be lucky
my answers would be the same to all of those except had typically charges nightly to 85% then 90% when the tesla response originally was the loss may be from too narrow of a charge window (65-80) and suggested to go to 90% most nights.

1. Garaged with winter garage temp not lower than 50F
2. 85-90%
3. Charge daily (until the last couple months - now trying 20-90 a few times a week)
4. Most all driving is stop and barely go traffic - daily commute averages in the single digit speeds most days
5. Almost always above 60% (except for the current 20-90 cycling)
6. Could just be unlucky
7. Also i let the battery sit at least an hour after driving, before charging & after charging before departing. (Exception of course is when on the road)

although more and more seems the ones showing the bottom of the average are cars from around the same era as mine. @MarkB, @GDN off the top of my head. @SoFlaModel3 's wife I don't think uses teslafi, but think he said previously her capacity has dropped similarly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Same situation with me, but I charged to 90% and let it rip from time to time ;-)

What's your lifetime Wh/mi?

BTW, thanks for sharing the details. Always interesting to see how these marvels of technology behave based on the variables around each one.
Since September 2019, I've been at 230 Wh/mi. I suspect this hasn't changed much since I first got the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
my answers would be the same to all of those except had typically charges nightly to 85% then 90% when the tesla response originally was the loss may be from too narrow of a charge window (65-80) and suggested to go to 90% most nights.

1. Garaged with winter garage temp not lower than 50F
2. 85-90%
3. Charge daily (until the last couple months - now trying 20-90 a few times a week)
4. Most all driving is stop and barely go traffic - daily commute averages in the single digit speeds most days
5. Almost always above 60% (except for the current 20-90 cycling)
6. Could just be unlucky
7. Also i let the battery sit at least an hour after driving, before charging & after charging before departing. (Excepting of course is when on the road)

although more and more seems the ones showing the bottom of the average are cars from around the same era as mine. @MarkB, @GDN off the top of my head. @SoFlaModel3's wife I don't think uses teslafi, but think he said previously her capacity has dropped similarly.
Someone can correct me if they disagree but I don't think that Li batteries benefit at all from range cycling. If your 20-90% cycling doesn't show appreciable benefit, I might try sticking with the daily charge but set your max charge range to say 60% and see how low you go. I've taken the approach to have my daily range center around 50% when comparing the max charge to the max depletion (for average daily driving).

The only benefit I'm aware of for using most of the battery range is for calibration purposes (i.e. letting the battery management unit actually see how the voltage varies according to power delivered). Not wanting to get into the weeds too much but Li batteries are not at all linear when SOC is compared to voltage level. Furthermore, I don't know how good the vehicle is at measuring current delivered (i.e. the current portion of the power equation where power=current*voltage).
 

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Someone can correct me if they disagree but I don't think that Li batteries benefit at all from range cycling. If your 20-90% cycling doesn't show appreciable benefit, I might try sticking with the daily charge but set your max charge range to say 60% and see how low you go. I've taken the approach to have my daily range center around 50% when comparing the max charge to the max depletion (for average daily driving).

The only benefit I'm aware of for using most of the battery range is for calibration purposes (i.e. letting the battery management unit actually see how the voltage varies according to power delivered). Not wanting to get into the weeds too much but Li batteries are not at all linear when SOC is compared to voltage level. Furthermore, I don't know how good the vehicle is at measuring current delivered (i.e. the current portion of the power equation where power=current*voltage).
It is based on Tesla's recommendation and I believe for the purpose noted, let the BMS calibrate. I don't know that it is for range cycling. I could be mistaken, but all I'll really say is this is based on direction from Tesla.
 
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my answers would be the same to all of those except had typically charges nightly to 85% then 90% when the tesla response originally was the loss may be from too narrow of a charge window (65-80) and suggested to go to 90% most nights.

1. Garaged with winter garage temp not lower than 50F
2. 85-90%
3. Charge daily (until the last couple months - now trying 20-90 a few times a week)
4. Most all driving is stop and barely go traffic - daily commute averages in the single digit speeds most days
5. Almost always above 60% (except for the current 20-90 cycling)
6. Could just be unlucky
7. Also i let the battery sit at least an hour after driving, before charging & after charging before departing. (Exception of course is when on the road)

although more and more seems the ones showing the bottom of the average are cars from around the same era as mine. @MarkB, @GDN off the top of my head. @SoFlaModel3 's wife I don't think uses teslafi, but think he said previously her capacity has dropped similarly.
I don't have good news and my news seems to be getting worse. I decided I'd do the 20% to 90% a couple of times as has been iterated by Tesla mechanics.

Info: AWD, Nov 2018 build, 17,530 miles. Mostly city driving, 10 to 12 trips of 200 miles. Supercharge ~10 times, typical charge, nightly (or every other night early on) with the UMC to 80%. Has been charged to 100% 8 to 10 times. Heavy foot, use regen for all braking about 95% of the time.

Last night sat at 33 miles range for almost 2 hours, charged to 90% and sat on the charger for another almost 2 hours. 90% charge 255 miles - calculated 100% is 283.3 miles range. I never got over 310 total miles on this car, so have lost almost 10% at this point.

This just pulled from Teslafi:
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@littlD, something is funky about the fleet average in your report. At 15,000 miles, for example, it shows the fleet average range near 310 miles. The reports from @potatoee and @MelindaV show a little under 300 miles at this mileage, which is also what I see for the fleet average when I run the report. There are settings that can be adjusted for tolerance to the same odometer, temp and %charged..... What did you set them to?

although more and more seems the ones showing the bottom of the average are cars from around the same era as mine.
I vote for this. Everyone recites their charging behavior and I have yet to see patterns that correlate.
 
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although more and more seems the ones showing the bottom of the average are cars from around the same era as mine. @MarkB, @GDN off the top of my head. @SoFlaModel3 's wife I don't think uses teslafi, but think he said previously her capacity has dropped similarly.
Keen observation.
 

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@littlD, something is funky about the fleet average in your report. At 15,000 miles, for example, it shows the fleet average range near 310 miles. The reports from @potatoee and @MelindaV show a little under 300 miles at this mileage, which is also what I see for the fleet average when I run the report. There are settings that can be adjusted for tolerance to the same odometer, temp and %charged..... What did you set them to?

I vote for this. Everyone recites their charging behavior and I have yet to see patterns that correlate.
I'm going to go one further and likely say built around the same time and AWD, however about this time they were only building AWD, so that could likley be the correlator.
 
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@littlD, something is funky about the fleet average in your report. At 15,000 miles, for example, it shows the fleet average range near 310 miles. The reports from @potatoee and @MelindaV show a little under 300 miles at this mileage, which is also what I see for the fleet average when I run the report. There are settings that can be adjusted for tolerance to the same odometer, temp and %charged..... What did you set them to?

I vote for this. Everyone recites their charging behavior and I have yet to see patterns that correlate.
Here's what I currently have:
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I didn't even notice the settings link :). I just use the defaults. Note that I tried to "Include fleet data with completed charges" over 50% and it didn't effect my stats.:

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