[Triangles]

LOL I have had my TM3 almost 5 months and until I found this thread I didn't know I had lumbar adjustments.

 

[Anthonyb]

Mine goes up and down but also inflates the bladder with the adjustment, so I have to adjust the height first then deflate it to the desired amount. Kinda weird but it works.

 

[Cintoman]

Seems like I'm having a similar problem. I tried to figure out how the lumbar button works, and from what I can tell, the back button (closest to the rear of the car) makes no noise, but seems to deflate the bladder. But it still feels like too much lumbar on my lower back. I tried pushing against the seatback with my hand while hitting the deflate button to see if it further emptied out any remaining air in the bladder, but it didn't seem to help much. I seem to recall that it felt more comfortable when I first got the car before I started playing around with the lumbar button recently.

It feels like after I fully deflate the bladder, it seems as though it's inflating a bit because I can feel some movement against my lower back. At the same time, when fully deflated, my back feels pretty comfortable for about 10 seconds. Then I can feel the lumbar again.

I dropped my car off at the Dedham, MA Service Center this past Friday for some other unrelated items, and I mentioned this issue to them. We'll see what they have to say.

--Cintoman

 

[Jay Jay]

I have also noticed that the controls for the lumbar are finicky and don't always seem to be working. I'm going to need to play with it more and determine if it has a fixable issue.

 

[Cintoman]

So I ended up taking my driver's seat apart so I can see what was going on with the lumbar support. As some others have said in this thread, it seemed like the seats were more comfortable with no lumbar at delivery, and then, after playing around with the lumbar support, now it seems worse with more lumbar, and you're not able to fully deflate the lumbar as to what it was (no lumbar at all) at delivery.

In order to get at the innards of the seat, you have to remove the rear plastic clamshell cover. To remove this, you have to remove the headrest, as the chrome metal posts hold the clamshell cover in place. Although the headrest looks to not be removable, it is, and can be done rather simply. I followed this video below:

Basically, there's 2 metal clips on the left side of each post that you have to push and hold left, then once done, you can remove the headrest.

Once the headrest is removed, sitting in the back seat, put your fingers between the top of the back of the seat and the clamshell cover, then pull it out towards you. The bottom of the clamshell cover is kind of hinged at the bottom of the seat, so it'll just plop onto your legs.

Once this is opened, you can see the inside of the seat back, which includes a large yellow plastic piece. This piece has a air bladder inflator (grey metal box), which has several air tubes coming out of it...in my car, I had a green and a blue air tube. These are what inflates each of the air bladders, which are behind the yellow plastic piece. I was able to slide my hand from the top of the yellow plastic piece down between that and the seatback foam and feel the air bladders. They were fully deflated. To confirm the buttons were working correctly, I had my son press the top button, and the bottom button. The top and the bottom bladders inflated respectively. I then had him delfate them, and they deflated fully. Pressing the forward button appeared to inflate both bladders simultaneously. Again, by pressing the back button, both deflated as expected.

So my issue wasn't what I thought....that the bladders did not fully deflate. Nor was the issue that they fully deflated, then partially automatically inflated again.

It now appeared that the issue with my seat is that by default, it's designed with too much lumbar. I had to somehow reduce this.

I started out by pulling at the two slanted black metal rods that come from the top and go into the yellow plastic. They are pretty stiff, but I managed to reduce their tension on the seatback foam significantly; hence less pressure on my back. By sitting in the driver's seat before and then after, I noticed a bit of difference. Still, this didn't really affect the lumbar area too much, as the lumbar area is lower in the seat.

I then had my son put his hands on the left and right side of the yellow plastic piece about mid-way down, and pull it back towards him as much as he could. With me in the driver's seat, I finally found the seat perfectly comfortable !! Once he released, it was back to too much lumbar. So I needed to figure out a way to keep the pullback tension that he was doing to being permanent.

What I ended up doing was using some pink rigid foam insulation and putting it about mid-way down on both the left and the right side of the yellow plastic, taking note not to pinch the tubes on the right side. This keeps the yellow plastic further away from the seatback foam, and significantly reducing the lumbar pressure that it was putting against my back. I didn't notice any additional pressure coming from the left and right side as a result of inserting those small pink foam blocks. It doesn't completely eliminate the lumbar, but I'd say it reduced it by 90% or so.

I think ideally, if you'd be able to pull back the yellow plastic piece at the very bottom of the seat back, it would be perfect. But that piece seems to be installed quite sturdy to some heavy steel frame supports.

I included some pictures I took of the headrest removed, the seatback, the black rods before and after pulling them back, as well as the pink rigid foam supports I installed.

Let me know if you have any questions on this.

Thanks,

--Cintoman

 

[PNWmisty]

That was a good write-up and thanks for the photos. Interesting to see how Tesla designed their seats.

I won't be digging around in my seats (they are very comfortable for me as is). But your description of how the upper and lower bladders inflate/deflate will make it easier for people to learn how to adjust it because it's not entirely intuitive. It seems the proper adjustment procedure is to push the back of the four way rocker switch to completely deflate. Then push either down or up (or some combination of both) until it fills in in the right spot. There doesn't appear to be any reason to push the switch forward. From your description, the same thing can be achieved by pushing the switch down and then up?

And if you go to far it's probably a good idea to push the back of the switch to deflate and then start over.

 

[Ramykha]

So I ended up taking my driver's seat apart so I can see what was going on with the lumbar support. As some others have said in this thread, it seemed like the seats were more comfortable with no lumbar at delivery, and then, after playing around with the lumbar support, now it seems worse with more lumbar, and you're not able to fully deflate the lumbar as to what it was (no lumbar at all) at delivery.

In order to get at the innards of the seat, you have to remove the rear plastic clamshell cover. To remove this, you have to remove the headrest, as the chrome metal posts hold the clamshell cover in place. Although the headrest looks to not be removable, it is, and can be done rather simply. I followed this video below:

Basically, there's 2 metal clips on the left side of each post that you have to push and hold left, then once done, you can remove the headrest.

Once the headrest is removed, sitting in the back seat, put your fingers between the top of the back of the seat and the clamshell cover, then pull it out towards you. The bottom of the clamshell cover is kind of hinged at the bottom of the seat, so it'll just plop onto your legs.

Once this is opened, you can see the inside of the seat back, which includes a large yellow plastic piece. This piece has a air bladder inflator (grey metal box), which has several air tubes coming out of it...in my car, I had a green and a blue air tube. These are what inflates each of the air bladders, which are behind the yellow plastic piece. I was able to slide my hand from the top of the yellow plastic piece down between that and the seatback foam and feel the air bladders. They were fully deflated. To confirm the buttons were working correctly, I had my son press the top button, and the bottom button. The top and the bottom bladders inflated respectively. I then had him delfate them, and they deflated fully. Pressing the forward button appeared to inflate both bladders simultaneously. Again, by pressing the back button, both deflated as expected.

So my issue wasn't what I thought....that the bladders did not fully deflate. Nor was the issue that they fully deflated, then partially automatically inflated again.

It now appeared that the issue with my seat is that by default, it's designed with too much lumbar. I had to somehow reduce this.

I started out by pulling at the two slanted black metal rods that come from the top and go into the yellow plastic. They are pretty stiff, but I managed to reduce their tension on the seatback foam significantly; hence less pressure on my back. By sitting in the driver's seat before and then after, I noticed a bit of difference. Still, this didn't really affect the lumbar area too much, as the lumbar area is lower in the seat.

I then had my son put his hands on the left and right side of the yellow plastic piece about mid-way down, and pull it back towards him as much as he could. With me in the driver's seat, I finally found the seat perfectly comfortable !! Once he released, it was back to too much lumbar. So I needed to figure out a way to keep the pullback tension that he was doing to being permanent.

What I ended up doing was using some pink rigid foam insulation and putting it about mid-way down on both the left and the right side of the yellow plastic, taking note not to pinch the tubes on the right side. This keeps the yellow plastic further away from the seatback foam, and significantly reducing the lumbar pressure that it was putting against my back. I didn't notice any additional pressure coming from the left and right side as a result of inserting those small pink foam blocks. It doesn't completely eliminate the lumbar, but I'd say it reduced it by 90% or so.

I think ideally, if you'd be able to pull back the yellow plastic piece at the very bottom of the seat back, it would be perfect. But that piece seems to be installed quite sturdy to some heavy steel frame supports.

I included some pictures I took of the headrest removed, the seatback, the black rods before and after pulling them back, as well as the pink rigid foam supports I installed.

Let me know if you have any questions on this.

Thanks,

--Cintoman

View attachment 18117 View attachment 18118 View attachment 18119 View attachment 18120 View attachment 18121 View attachment 18122

This write up is amazing. I ended up doing something similar, deflating the lumbar support all the way then innediately removing the power to the inflation motor, but it essentially made no difference. I'm considering doing what you did this weekend.

Question - do you also find the actual seat to be uncomfortable as well? Specifically the side bolsters?

 

[Cintoman]

This write up is amazing. I ended up doing something similar, deflating the lumbar support all the way then innediately removing the power to the inflation motor, but it essentially made no difference. I'm considering doing what you did this weekend.

Question - do you also find the actual seat to be uncomfortable as well? Specifically the side bolsters?

Hi @Ramykha ...Welcome to the Forum. I hope you'll find a lot of information here as well as a bunch of wonderful people !!

Thanks for the compliments on my write-up. I do like to go into quite a bit of detail

What's interesting about the seats in the Model 3 is that prior to getting the car, I've sat in quite a few of them, and found the seats to be really comfortable. As anyone who has felt the seat material, it is super soft and luxurious, and feels so much better than leather. When I got my car at the end of Sept, my initial drive home (about a 3 mile drive), the seats felt great. As well as driving the next few days. No concerns at all. However, as I started driving a bit more, I started paying more attention to the lumbar on the seats, and felt there was waaaay too much, even if the bladders were fully deflated. So that's when I thought I might have had a problem with the bladders not deflating, and decided to remove the seat back to investigate and fix. That helped quite a bit for me.

However, as far as the side bolsters, they seem fine to me. What I find to be another issue seems to be with the seat bottom cushion. I'm a pretty skinny guy (5'7" and about 150 lbs), but it seems the bottom cushion, towards the back (where your butt sits on it), seems to be a bit narrow, and the seat cushion bolsters seems to get in the way. Example: I always keep my phone in my back left pocket. But now, when driving the 3, the bottom bolster on the left seems to get in the way and put pressure on my phone in my pocket. Wish the bottom seat cushion would have been a bit wider towards the back of it.

At any rate, I had a 2005 C230 Mercedes-Benz Sport Sedan for over 12 years, and I felt that those seats were among the most comfortable seats I have ever sat in. They were the Sport Seats, with some really big side bolsters and a manual lumbar support that I always left the setting to zero. The seats were firm, but exceptionally supportive, and cradled your body. You sat IN the seats rather than ON the seats. It tells you something about the comfort of the Mercedes seats when you drive 25 hours straight, non-stop from RI to FL, and at the end of the drive, you felt perfectly fine, with no back aches or fatigue.

I think for the majority of the people that check out and sit (and eventually own) a Model 3, the seats will probably be far better than the seats on their existing car. And the compliments will continue to pour in regarding the 3's seats. However, coming from what I think are the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in (my Mercedes seats) to these, they don't feel nearly as comfortable. I still think they're good and Tesla did a good job, but not great.

--Cintoman

 

[Ramykha]

Hi @Ramykha ...Welcome to the Forum. I hope you'll find a lot of information here as well as a bunch of wonderful people !!

Thanks for the compliments on my write-up. I do like to go into quite a bit of detail

What's interesting about the seats in the Model 3 is that prior to getting the car, I've sat in quite a few of them, and found the seats to be really comfortable. As anyone who has felt the seat material, it is super soft and luxurious, and feels so much better than leather. When I got my car at the end of Sept, my initial drive home (about a 3 mile drive), the seats felt great. As well as driving the next few days. No concerns at all. However, as I started driving a bit more, I started paying more attention to the lumbar on the seats, and felt there was waaaay too much, even if the bladders were fully deflated. So that's when I thought I might have had a problem with the bladders not deflating, and decided to remove the seat back to investigate and fix. That helped quite a bit for me.

However, as far as the side bolsters, they seem fine to me. What I find to be another issue seems to be with the seat bottom cushion. I'm a pretty skinny guy (5'7" and about 150 lbs), but it seems the bottom cushion, towards the back (where your butt sits on it), seems to be a bit narrow, and the seat cushion bolsters seems to get in the way. Example: I always keep my phone in my back left pocket. But now, when driving the 3, the bottom bolster on the left seems to get in the way and put pressure on my phone in my pocket. Wish the bottom seat cushion would have been a bit wider towards the back of it.

At any rate, I had a 2005 C230 Mercedes-Benz Sport Sedan for over 12 years, and I felt that those seats were among the most comfortable seats I have ever sat in. They were the Sport Seats, with some really big side bolsters and a manual lumbar support that I always left the setting to zero. The seats were firm, but exceptionally supportive, and cradled your body. You sat IN the seats rather than ON the seats. It tells you something about the comfort of the Mercedes seats when you drive 25 hours straight, non-stop from RI to FL, and at the end of the drive, you felt perfectly fine, with no back aches or fatigue.

I think for the majority of the people that check out and sit (and eventually own) a Model 3, the seats will probably be far better than the seats on their existing car. And the compliments will continue to pour in regarding the 3's seats. However, coming from what I think are the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in (my Mercedes seats) to these, they don't feel nearly as comfortable. I still think they're good and Tesla did a good job, but not great.

--Cintoman

That's precisely my experience with the seats as well. The rails under the seat are too narrow to comfortably fit. I can't find a position without feeling like the lateral-most parts of me are right over metal.

Did you find that the lumbar modification made this seat cushion issue worse seeing as it allowed you to sit further back in the seat where presumably the bolsters are even narrower?

 

[Cintoman]

That's precisely my experience with the seats as well. The rails under the seat are too narrow to comfortably fit. I can't find a position without feeling like the lateral-most parts of me are right over metal.

Did you find that the lumbar modification made this seat cushion issue worse seeing as it allowed you to sit further back in the seat where presumably the bolsters are even narrower?

To be honest, I have barely driven the car since I made the modification to the seats, because it's been in the body shop for nearly 2 weeks, getting some pre-delivery scratches/dust grains and some tiny dents taken care of. I've been in a loaner 18 Nissan Altima, which I find absolutely horrible.

--Cintoman

 

[Jamooche]

Hi Ramykha and Cintomanh - I am about to order a Model 3 and this issue is my only concern for the order. I currently have a brand new 5 month old car with very uncomfortable seats that are already worn out (dealer says it's normal), so I'm probably more worried than most. I test drove it today and yes, the lumbar support seems strong, but felt ok for the 35 minute drive. I felt like it had that issue where it kept inflating slightly, it could just be me, but I kept hitting the back and down button during the drive which seemed to lessen it. I'm also small and skinny and become sensitive to these things more than most.

Is the pink foam still working to reduce the pressure?
Any other fixes?
Has anyone had custom upholstery done to fix this?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Cintoman]

Hey Jamooche....first of all Welcome to the Forum !! Great to have you onboard, and I hope we can help you out in any way we can.

I was about to post a slight modification that I made recently to my driver's seat. So I'll post in in my next post here shortly. But basically, I switched out the rigid pink insulation that I used for something a little more softer, as the pink one was a little too rigid and I was now feeling the insulation pushing up against my lower shoulder blades. More to come below....

--Cintoman

 

[Cintoman]

So as I posted awhile back ago, the lumbar on my seat was fully deflated, but was still waaay too much for me. I made some modifications to my driver's seat to alleviate the lumbar pressure that the large yellow plastic piece was putting up against my lower back. I did this by inserting some rigid pink foam insulation pieces I had lying around in my garage, cut to fit in between the seatback foam and the yellow plastic piece, as my pictures showed.

While it did alleviate the lumbar pressure by say, 90%, and was far more tolerable than before, I started noticing that the rigid foam insulation was now impinging against the seatback foam and putting new pressure on another area of my back: my lower shoulder blades. The foam in the seatback is pretty thin, so introducing something that will put pressure on it, will certainly translate into putting this pressure on the visible side of the seatback, and hence, your back.

So I had to come up with some foam that was rigid enough to keep that yellow plastic piece away from the seatback foam, yet soft/flexible enough that it wouldn't create an additional pressure point. The solution was this much more compressible foam that was a bit thicker than the original pink rigid foam, but yet flexible enough that it would dissipate the compression much better.

I'm not sure where I originally got this foam from, but probably from the packaging of some appliance. In fact, what's funny is that this past weekend, my family and I went to Ikea, and my son happened to come across this same foam lying around in their large warehouse (where you pick up your boxed furniture before cashing out). The ones there were like 6" diameter round discs.

Anyways, here are some pictures of the new modifications I've made. Note, for the right foam, I actually notched out a small section so the blue air bladder tube (kind of hidden) would fit in, so as not to crush the tube.

The result is a near perfect seat now with no impinging pressure on my lower shoulder blades from the foam. But more importantly, the yellow plastic piece is now far enough away from the inside seatback so as to not create any lumbar pressure on my back. Finally !!!

See pics below.

--Cintoman

 

[Jamooche]

Thank you Cintoman! This is great news and something I will probably be doing to mine when I get the car. I've been reading as much as I can about this car (and watching the endless YouTube videos) and I have to say the Tesla community is something special. Much like the vintage (solid axles) Land Rover community that I'm a big part of. Ask any question and you instantly have 20 responses. Heading to CarMax this week to get a quote on my current car which Tesla will match and then ordering. Thanks again! Hopefully we can do a meet up as RI is near me and we are there all the time in the summer.

 

[Jamooche]

Found some good pictures of the Yellow support / lumbar support system. There is a bolt at the bottom that I assume holds it in place. You can probably loosen it and put some washers space it back a bit. Looks like a simple panel that can easily be bent or moved rearwards a bit.

Not sure what the gray felt bag is, but the hose to it only comes from the motor.

Found via here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-2018-...h=item442a765f2e:g:BWMAAOSwUxlbwfv-:rk:4:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-2018-...h=item214d76f275:g:SigAAOSw0~pcALB0:rk:2:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-2018-...h=item46876e6ba9:g:lFsAAOSwAPtbwfth:rk:3:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-2019-...580139?hash=item2f295f636b:g:P5YAAOSwC~9cMI0w

 

[JeffC]

@Cintoman and all Thanks much for the notes. I too find the lumbar support to stick out too much for me, even when fully deflated, and may try to modify it to reduce more.

I also find the headrest tilts my head uncomfortably forward and may try the hack of flipping it backwards so the back is towards the front and the front is towards the back.

Comment: please make sure any modifications are safe in a crash or fire. For example, some plastics give off toxic fumes in a fire and probably should not be used in a car in general. Also make sure any changes to the seat do not add to potential injuries in a crash.

 

[JeffC]

Found some good pictures of the Yellow support / lumbar support system. There is a bolt at the bottom that I assume holds it in place. You can probably loosen it and put some washers space it back a bit. Looks like a simple panel that can easily be bent or moved rearwards a bit.

Not sure what the gray felt bag is, but the hose to it only comes from the motor.

Found via here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-2018-...h=item442a765f2e:g:BWMAAOSwUxlbwfv-:rk:4:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-2018-...h=item214d76f275:g:SigAAOSw0~pcALB0:rk:2:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-2018-...h=item46876e6ba9:g:lFsAAOSwAPtbwfth:rk:3:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-2019-...580139?hash=item2f295f636b:g:P5YAAOSwC~9cMI0w

If you added washers under the bolt I think it would push the lumbar support forward, the opposite of desired.

All: please be really careful making any changes to the seats and car in general. They could have safety implications in a crash.

 

[JeffC]

Hi @RamykhaHowever, as far as the side bolsters, they seem fine to me. What I find to be another issue seems to be with the seat bottom cushion. I'm a pretty skinny guy (5'7" and about 150 lbs), but it seems the bottom cushion, towards the back (where your butt sits on it), seems to be a bit narrow, and the seat cushion bolsters seems to get in the way. Example: I always keep my phone in my back left pocket. But now, when driving the 3, the bottom bolster on the left seems to get in the way and put pressure on my phone in my pocket. Wish the bottom seat cushion would have been a bit wider towards the back of it.

Suggestion: I have heard that a wallet in a back pocket actually distorts the spine enough to possibly cause harm to the back. Try taking the phone and/or wallet out of a back pocket.

 

[garsh]

I also find the headrest tilts my head uncomfortably forward...

A fix for that issue can be found here:

Neck pain/position

 

[JeffC]

A fix for that issue can be found here:

Neck pain/position

Thanks Garsh! I actually spotted that on Youtube earlier too.

However instead of modifying the headrest, I've heard it's possible to take it off the seat and turn it around, basically so it's backwards. Not to start rumors, but if you look at an early Model S, it looks to me that the headrest was actually the other way around before. If so, then flipping the headrest around is arguably going back to an original configuration (like early Model S).