[MelindaV]

Reddit user omgwtfbyobbq uncovered Tesla's EPA certification doc for the Model 3 long range

lots of good stuff in there (like 258HP, 350volt, 495miles/89kWh), albeit a little raw

for comparison:
Model S 75
Model S P90D
Model X 60D

 

[Sandy]

This is very interesting. The main thing I picked up here is that the MS and MX list an AC Induction motor and the M3 lists an AC 3 phase Permanent Magnet motor. I was under the impression that it was going to be an AC induction motor.

 

[MelindaV]

comparing to the Model S 75, the battery calculates down to a 70kWh.
@Sandy - agree, thought induction was Tesla's 'thing' and would always go with that over the permanent magnet style.

 

[victor]

Test Procedure
81 - Charge Depleting UDDS

PHEV/EV TEST INFO
Recharge Event Voltage 208
Recharge Event Energy (kiloWatt-hours) 89.404
Charge Depleting Range (Calculated miles) 495.11
Charge Depleting Range (Actual miles) 495.04
Equivalent All Electric Range (miles) 495.11

Holy batman!

 

[Mike]

Is there a subject matter expert out there that can provide some context for this raw data please?

Thanks.

 

[3Victoria]

Yes, this is a puzzle. I am hoping it is a hybrid, with smaller permanent magnets, so that they achieve good low speed efficiency and good high speed effeciency.

 

[Sandy]

comparing to the Model S 75, the battery calculates down to a 70kWh.
@Sandy - agree, thought induction was Tesla's 'thing' and would always go with that over the permanent magnet style.

Hey Melinda. I agree but its right there in black and white. It's at the bottom of page 3 left side. It's a certification document and has to be accurate:

S and X AC Induction
Model 3 AC 3 Phase Permanent Magnet

 

[Roderick80]

Hey Melinda. I agree but its right there in black and white. It's at the bottom of page 3 left side. It's a certification document and has to be accurate:

S and X AC Induction
Model 3 AC 3 Phase Permanent Magnet

Interesting. This was rumored last year:
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/might-model-3-use-different-motor-technology

 

[Kizzy]

It reads to me that they did this range testing in a lab (4 wheel drive dynamometer). So if we lived in a vacuum, a 400+ mile range at freeway speed sounds doable.

 

[Kizzy]

Interesting. This was rumored last year:
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/might-model-3-use-different-motor-technology

Oh. Magnets. With this information, I can understand a bit more why dual motor and performance come later (if we consider sourcing enough magnets to be a potential bottleneck in producing vehicles).

 

[TrevP]

I read the EPA docs. Model 3 is a monster of a car. 80kWh, 258HP on the rear motor, really efficient.

Nice!

 

[Sandy]

I read the EPA docs. Model 3 is a monster of a car. 80kWh, 258HP on the rear motor, really efficient.

Nice!

Very cool! Rumored for a long time. And by cooI mean it. Motor runs cooler. Still 3 phase AC just using magnets instead of windings. Probably cheaper to produce as well.

 

[Sandy]

Model 3 Long Range window sticker says 126 MPGe.
Model S 75 RWD sticker for comparison is 98 MPGe.
Not due to weight and aero alone. More efficient motor.

 

[Mike]

I read the EPA docs. Model 3 is a monster of a car. 80kWh, 258HP on the rear motor, really efficient.

Nice!

Am I reading the raw data correctly, about 7 kW (10 hp) to propel the vehicle thru the test regimen?

I am not familiar with this raw data, hope a decode of all the data can be part of your next video.

 

[garsh]

Recharge Event Energy (kiloWatt-hours) 89.404
Charge Depleting Range (Calculated miles) 495.11

Wait a minute.... was I correct???

Assuming it could hold 46% more energy, that would give us a 90.5kWh pack. So I think it will be quite reasonable to expect an 85kWh pack - maybe even a 90kWh pack - to be offered as the top option for the Model 3.

 

[MelindaV]

sorry @garsh - I don't think those numbers line up with the actual battery size

 

[Kbm3]

Wait a minute.... was I correct???

That is coming from the wall.

 

[Jethrometro]

Here's the Bolt's CSI for comparison.

 

[Gary Moore]

Holy L13, I'm hallucinating they're naming shocking engines after me!

 

[EValuatED]

The ever analytical Troy has posted a summation here on TMC. Seems the usable battery is around 78.3 kWh and the pack is a few kWh larger at 80.5 kWh... and larger than the S75*!

"1. The Model 3 large battery is 80 kWh. To be precise, the actual capacity is 80.5 kWh based on this calculation:

Total pack capacity = 350 V * 230 Ah= 80,500 Wh = 80.5 kWh

Total Voltage of Battery Packs: 350 Volt (source is page 3 here)

Battery Energy Capacity: 230 Ah (source is page 3 here)

The document doesn't say that 230 is 230 Ah, however, I found another example here from another car that shows the unit for "Battery Energy Capacity" is Ah.

2. Model 3 LR usable capacity is more than Model S 85/85D/P85D.

Usable capacity is 78.3 kWh (source: page 6 footer). This is more than the usable capacity of the Model S 85, 85D, P85D. Those have 77.5 kWh usable capacity (source). At that time Tesla was over advertising battery pack sizes. This problem only affected the 85 and 90 kWh packs. Both of these packs have less than advertised capacity. Tesla later corrected this problem with the 75 and 100 kWh packs.

Tesla doesn't want to remind people that the Model 3 LR has more battery capacity than the 75 and 85 kWh Model S versions. That seems to be the reason why they are not using the Model 3 80/80D/P80D name scheme anymore. However, I don't know how this will work because Model 3 LR or Model 3 Standard will be very confusing when they upgrade the battery sizes."

* Recent interweb posting included a picture of a new S75 car with a battery label indicating an 85kWh pack.