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Gas vs EV costs EV wins check my math

2120 Views 53 Replies 17 Participants Last post by  jtkrpm
So I am at an airport with too much time and thought how much will road tripping in my Model 3 cost vs a gas car. I'm using 34 cents a kwh charging rate because it's what I see most here in the midwest. I get 224Wh/mile going at speed which turns 4.64 miles/kW. So average gas cars get about 26mpg highway. Some get more others get less. 26/4.64 = 5.6 × .34 cents = 1.90 a gallon equivalent. Vs whatever today's cost per gallon is. WOW Im living back in the 60s. Check my math but even if all you did is supercharge your way better off. Gas here today 4.24 and I heard its heading to $5.
Ok of I have a led foot I use 244 per mile which in the end is the gas equivalent of $2.15 electic gallon
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Does that include the land and infrastructure build needed to get the power to the distribution network?
Fossil fuel plants also need land and infrastructure.

Or a battery array for solar/wind in case it's not sunny or not windy? That's what it takes to make them equivalent, since fueled generation can run 24/7.
Going 100% green will require diverse energy sources including nuclear. There are new designs that are safe.

I think that every single power company will continue to hold out until either their power generation infrastructure fails from fatigue, or until the fuel for it becomes completely unavailable. Until then, increasing fuel costs won't faze them, because they will just pass that on to customers. They also know very well that if they let it become a crisis, the government will have to subsidize building the next generation of power generation.
In Ohio, power generation and transmission are separated. If a company is able to produce electricity at a lower price then people will buy from them. That's the incentive to decommission old and inefficient power plants.
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1)Coal and other fossil plants can be scheduled to run at the output profile requires for the load. Wind is only available when the wind blows. I know most of the time on an island. So comparing a coal plant $/kW to a wind plant $/kW is not really apples to apples.
2)My query of my Tesla shows that I only supercharge ~22% of the time (35,000 mi) so a fairer cost calculation would include all charging with only about 20% Supercharging.
Fossil fuel plants also need land and infrastructure.
They do, but far less space.



Going 100% green will require diverse energy sources including nuclear. There are new designs that are safe.
That's true, but batteries tend to pair nicely with wind and solar as long as the demand doesn't exceed the battery production. The best place for nuclear is flexible demand, because nuclear doesn't need to ramp up, it's always on.


In Ohio, power generation and transmission are separated. If a company is able to produce electricity at a lower price then people will buy from them. That's the incentive to decommission old and inefficient power plants.
Only if the cost to build new ones is far less, and they can't get away with passing along the costs to the customers. Otherwise they'll keep running those old plants until they're illegal or dead.
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1)Coal and other fossil plants can be scheduled to run at the output profile requires for the load.
Hawaii has no coal mines or natural gas wells. Keep that in mind when you think about scheduling. You'll need lots of fuel storage on-site to withstand shipments that arrive late. Wind and solar would give such a place a lot of independence.
So I am at an airport with too much time and thought how much will road tripping in my Model 3 cost vs a gas car. I'm using 34 cents a kwh charging rate because it's what I see most here in the midwest. I get 224Wh/mile going at speed which turns 4.64 miles/kW. So average gas cars get about 26mpg highway. Some get more others get less. 26/4.64 = 5.6 × .34 cents = 1.90 a gallon equivalent. Vs whatever today's cost per gallon is. WOW Im living back in the 60s. Check my math but even if all you did is supercharge your way better off. Gas here today 4.24 and I heard its heading to $5.
Ok of I have a led foot I use 244 per mile which in the end is the gas equivalent of $2.15 electic gallon
You said 4.64 miles/Kw and another post said about 265 miles/Kw so i will grant those as good numbers since i don't know what my 2022 S actually does for 70 mph. But i do know that this S is barely more $ efficient, if at all, compared to my previous 2012 Camry Hybrid at about 39 mpg. My actual guesstimate was $ efficiency at about 45 mpg equivalent. Note that i am using gas costs in the low $3 range and KwH in the low 30 cents/KwH range. Someone in these posts mentioned electricity at 15 cents/KwH which is obviously wrong if you consider your whole monthly utility bill with all the add-on fees.
You said 4.64 miles/Kw and another post said about 265 miles/Kw so i will grant those as good numbers since i don't know what my 2022 S actually does for 70 mph. But i do know that this S is barely more $ efficient, if at all, compared to my previous 2012 Camry Hybrid at about 39 mpg. My actual guesstimate was $ efficiency at about 45 mpg equivalent. Note that i am using gas costs in the low $3 range and KwH in the low 30 cents/KwH range. Someone in these posts mentioned electricity at 15 cents/KwH which is obviously wrong if you consider your whole monthly utility bill with all the add-on fees.
another post said about 265 miles/Kw this has to be 265wh/mile ? I think you meant 265Wh/mile. Cost of gas fluctuates and currently in Chicago is well over $4 and going to 5 from reports. And if you can charge at home it gets really cheap. Lets not forget the lack of even an oil change. The 15 cents is even less here in IL. Far as the other costs we pay all those monthly since we use electricity anyway. My bill barely budges when I charge at home.
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Charging an EV at home is much cheaper than paying for gasoline, especially from clean, green, free sunshine from rooftop solar. However, on roadtrips it is a different kettle of fishiness. The cost to plug in at public chargers used to be significantly less than paying at the gas pump. However, that is no longer the case —and continues to get worse— because Tesla keeps increasing its prices at the Superchargers. Below is a comparison of a roadtrip to the Sacramento area that I took in 2018 and again just last month:
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Tesla keeps increasing its prices at the Superchargers.
What are you paying per KW? We average about 31 cents here in IL some higher some lower. The place I use is 24 cents.
What are you paying per KW? We average about 31 cents here in IL some higher some lower. The place I use is 24 cents.
On that last 1,588-mile roadtrip above we paid at the Superchargers a total of $214.11 ÷ 495 kWh = an average of 43.25¢ per kW. Hope this helps.
On that last 1,588-mile roadtrip above we paid at the Superchargers a total of $214.11 ÷ 495 kWh = an average of 43.25¢ per kW. Hope this helps.
The price your paying per kw is quite high but I think your cost per gal is off. I took the mileage divided by 39mpg which is Prius mileage per gallon optimal and at 4.90 I get almost 200 even. 199.51 and to be honest rather drive the tesla. Also note Prius owners say if you go 70mph you get about 32mpg. That changes a lot your end up using 49 gal and spending $243
The price your paying per kw is quite high but I think your cost per gal is off. I took the mileage divided by 39mpg which is Prius mileage per gallon optimal and at 4.90 I get almost 200 even. 199.51 and to be honest rather drive the tesla. Also note Prius owners say if you go 70mph you get about 32mpg. That changes a lot your end up using 49 gal and spending $243
Y'think? Well… be sure to tell the EPA, then.

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Y'think? Well… be sure to tell the EPA, then.

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I was quoting a person who has a Prius and drives 100 miles a day with their Prius. Not sure why the numbers are so different. Now I want someone to test it going 70mph and see what they get. Could it be EPA is going 55?
Don't know. By the way looked up the average car and it gets 24mpg. Why the comparison to the highest MPG car? Just an interesting take. I just looked up another review who said he got 52 at 70mph. So I guess you should drive a Toyota?
Sunshine is free. Solar is not. We spent For a $16,000 system it would have to generate 160,000 kWh to reach 10¢/kWh.
At an average of 21 kWh per day that's 21 years to pay back.
The calc for 12¢/kWh is about 17 years.
Those are figures for my system.
So I guess you should drive a Toyota?
Not I, thanks. I haven't driven EVs for the last 11 years just to "save money." I refuse to drive with a tailpipe anymore —even if it costs me more. It's the price I should pay for the decades of harm I had been doing to the planet.
Sunshine is free. Solar is not. We spent For a $16,000 system it would have to generate 160,000 kWh to reach 10¢/kWh.
At an average of 25 kWh per day that's 17 years to pay back.
The calc for 12¢/kWh is about 15 years.
Those are figures for my system.
Y'think? I never said solar is free. But it does pay for itself eventually, especially if you use the truly free sunshine to power an EV.

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The federal Energy Information Administration estimates that 77% of Hawaii's power comes from burning fossil fuels, mostly oil and some coal. (source) That would explain the high cost of electricity.
On Maui, we currently pay $.46/kWh AT HOME.

Unless one is grandfathered in, Maui Electric Company is happy to pay you zero for any solar power you send to the grid. There is an intermediate plan (for which we patiently waited) where they do pay you $.17 for solar power that you send to them—against the $.46 they charge when you want to buy from them.

Unless you join one of the new battery share programs, they also cap the amount of energy you are allowed to produce at 10 kWh. This really sucks as a normal house draw with the Tesla charger going to our Model 3 is around 12-13kwh (if we’re running any appliances on the house.) So even on a bright summer day midday, we need to reduce charge rate (usually from 48 volts to 36 volts) in order to pull only from our panels. (Typically, not a problem as we’ll pull from batteries and have plenty of light to top them off, but still…)

Needless to say, we have a solid solar generation system and two PowerWalls to which we’re adding a third. Hawaii does offer a 35% tax deduction up to 5K per year, (in addition to Fed Tax savings) so we’ve been slowly building up our system each year. Unfortunately, installed PowerWall price has doubled here, too…

Almost everything in Hawaii is expensive as we are a group of islands so most things are shipped here! That includes diesel for the electric utility. Even though we’re on track to be weaned off fossil fuels, there’s not enough nighttime backup yet for that to be practical. Hence the experimental battery sharing programs. But even though they do contribute to the upfront cost of your home’s batteries in these programs, the problem with them is threefold: (1) someone else is managing your batteries so you can’t practice the best battery management for longevity, possibly shortening the life of your expensive batteries (2) they are pulling power precisely when you are most likely to need it (3)they are still not offering to match the price of what they charge you to buy power from the grid to what they pay you for taking it from your system.

We do love the Tesla app’s ability to manage our Model 3, report on our solar system, and allow us to easily change charging rate to Model 3, battery backup reserve, remotely as conditions change at our house.

We also move our 2018 LR Model 3! And local (ranger) service is superb (although there has been little need for service so far!)

What we don’t love is:
(1) bait and switch of trade-in and new car prices (any other company, if terms are discussed and they take a deposit, that’s called “a contract.”
(2) Difficulty in talking to a real person about purchasing
(3) New policy of paying a second delivery fee to get a new car to an island other than Oahu (there are weekly boats going directly from San Diego to Maui, so not necessary to ship to Honolulu first)
(4) New policy that cats are shipped from Honolul to neighboring islands on an open carrier, so they arrive covered on salt and you must accept or reject befjre removing from shipping yard. Used to be you would meet at a golf course and inspect and accept your beautifully detailed new vehicle…
(4) loss of radar

Ah well—things are evolving. But not necessarily for the better…
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So I am at an airport with too much time and thought how much will road tripping in my Model 3 cost vs a gas car. I'm using 34 cents a kwh charging rate because it's what I see most here in the midwest. I get 224Wh/mile going at speed which turns 4.64 miles/kW. So average gas cars get about 26mpg highway. Some get more others get less. 26/4.64 = 5.6 × .34 cents = 1.90 a gallon equivalent. Vs whatever today's cost per gallon is. WOW Im living back in the 60s. Check my math but even if all you did is supercharge your way better off. Gas here today 4.24 and I heard its heading to $5.
Ok of I have a led foot I use 244 per mile which in the end is the gas equivalent of $2.15 electic gallon
I just completed a trip from Portland OR to Port Isabel TX in my 2018 Model 3 LR RWD over 4 days using Superchargers all the way. My total cost for Supercharges was $389.34 over 2450 miles for an average of $16/mile. I'm not sure how that compares to the cost of gas or MPG.
Having spent a year on the island of Okinawa, there is so much wind and wave energy available and not harnessed. Solar too.

Bob Wilson
I lived on Okinawa for 4 years back in the 90s. Harnessing wind for energy wasn't really something your heard about. I do think things are changing now, as they are trying to become smarter about their energy use. Currently, their main power company uses a combination of coal, oil, LNG and gas, to produce electricity for the island. I believe that they are investigating wind (through steam and gas turbine and internal-combustion technologies) and photovoltaic options for alternative energy sources. Being in the path of yearly typhoons is probably another hinderance in their goal for other alternatives.
I just completed a trip from Portland OR to Port Isabel TX in my 2018 Model 3 LR RWD over 4 days using Superchargers all the way. My total cost for Supercharges was $389.34 over 2450 miles for an average of $16/mile. I'm not sure how that compares to the cost of gas or MPG.
16 cents per mile is $4 for 25 miles. Compare that to a ice car that has a 25 mpg average at $3.50 a gallon and it's more expensive to drive electric. Don't even try comparing it to a Prius with a 50 mpg average because it'll make you cry. Unfortunately supercharging is expensive. Fortunately we don't do it often.
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Electricity on Oahu is somewhere between $0.35 and $0.40. Gasoline is now $5. The islands total electrical capacity is somewhere around 1600MW, around 1 Hoover Dam. Why does everything cost more in Hawaii: housing, staples, utilities etc. As far as electricity goes, Oahu burns oil mostly. Of course they also harness solar, wind, geothermal, and have diesel generators and so on. They just shut down the coal plant and installed a HUGE Tesla battery farm. When agricultural land is $1,000,000 per acre and land near the water is 10x that, its expensive to use it for solar. On top of that, the permits situation is so bad, Tesla (and everyone else) has been waiting for YEARS for approvals. The 1 supercharger station is "Temporary" and has 6 stalls using an undersized transformer. There is more red tape than CA. People don't want power companies near them, messing with their pretty views, and are generally too lazy to care about solving problems.

Geothermal is only on the Big Island where there are few people and they pay closer to $0.50/kW. That plant makes very little power (38MW), and the volcano almost DISTROYED it last eruption. Its also a maintenance nightmare. When you play with fire...

Wave power is interesting but nobody wants to look at stuff blocking their pretty view, same with wind. Solar should be insanely popular due to the 35% state rebate, in addition to the federal 30% rebate. But you have to own a house, which has enough rooftop space, facing the sun. Those houses start at $1,000,000+, and that gets you a crappy 1500sqft single wall construction built 40+ yo house.

The primary solution is to use far less electricity in the first place.
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