It sounds like you may want to wait until air suspension is offered as an option.

 

Do you think current owners can have the air suspension fitted in their cars at a later point?

 

Or install a set of coil overs that you will need to adjust seasonally when you install or remove winter tires.

 

I have my Model 3 on order and I am super stoked about my new EV.
That said, I am concerned about the low suspension, especially in the snow (high centering is a pain).
Because of the air suspension on the Model S, I don't believe there has been any discussion about traditional coil suspension lift kits.

Does anybody have any thoughts about the possibility of a custom suspension lift on a Model 3?

If the model S has the same size springs then you could put those in and it would make it sit higher (because it weighs 1,000 lbs less) but it would also have a stiffer ride.

 

This would be extremely unwise, even if physically possible.

 

I have no doubt that aftermarket spring kits will appear for the Model 3. Elon is targeting production of 500,000 units annually and that's before production expansion to international gigafactories.

As a comparison, I looked up BMW 3 series (sedan, wagon and GT models not including 4 series coupes) sales in the US and I was surprised that 2017 was only just under 60,000 units. This is down from just over 100,000 in 2014 but I believe that was before coupes were split into the 4 series. For 2017, all variations of the Honda Civic sold a combined record just over 377,000.

Aftermarket tuners LOVE to target high volume cars because those cars are most likely to have a large volume of people that want aftermarket modifications and the tuners can recoup their investment in making custom mods.

Again, there will be limitations old ICE mods like ECU flash chips and Trailering hitches (not light duty bike hitches) because of required UI adjustments but the floodgates for aftermarket are about to explode.

 

The suspension may be stiff, but it's not actually very low. Ground clearance is 5.5", which sounds about average for sedans in this range.

 

Model 3 Monster Truck!

 

This sounds like our first Model 3 Donk

 

If the model S has the same size springs then you could put those in and it would make it sit higher (because it weighs 1,000 lbs less) but it would also have a stiffer ride.

Very bad idea. Spring rate should not be changed to adjust ride height. Your suspension would be topping out on normal roads and it would not only be uncomfortable but would put additional wear on the strut limiters that prevent the struts from extending too far.

 

I’d say you’d be better off with a used X or waiting for the Y.

 

This sounds like our first Model 3 Donk

haha I was going to say the same thing.

If you do get it lifted make sure to paint it with some candy bar theme.

 

So, for me, this is a relatively new way of thinking about my Model 3. As an unexpected (and incredibly shocking) birthday gift, my parents decided to upgrade me to a LR battery. Suddenly, there's the potential for me to get out into our highlands - a remote, extensive uninhabited wilderness where the best "roads" are just "someone drives a bulldozer across this route once a year", and the worst are "stakes pounded into a lava field", and where only the largest bodies of water are bridged.

Now, having to deal with rough roads has to some extent always been my plan, as my land is on a (sometimes poor condition) gravel road. But this is a whole new possibility, and it's got me thinking a lot about the details. And I'm sure some other people have also thought some about taking bad roads (or no roads!) in their Model 3, so please join in here!

Protection: I had previously not planned to do anything special to protect the paint. However, if I'm going to be taking highland roads, I really should have a clear bra applied to the "likely strike zones", ideally with a ceramic coat on the whole vehicle as well.

Extra rims: An extra set of "junk" rims should also be on my to-buy list. They can be scratched up and ugly, but ideally lightweight. I could leave offroad tires permanently mounted to them. Will a full set of tires and rims fit in the Model 3 with the rear seats down? I think I've seen that somewhere, but I'm not positive.... The idea would be that I could either A) drive on my normal rims / tires out to the highlands, then swap (and swap back on the far end), and have the original rims / tires as a backup in case of blown tires; or B) swap out at home, and swap back when I get back home - giving me more space inside, and saving some weight (aka extra range), but requiring me to rely on a tire patch kit as a safety measure.

Air suspension: Duh. I don't think I'd make it very far without being able to add at least a bit more height to the car. This of course would put me dependent on Tesla's timing whims... but at the very least I can't order until Eurospec comes out and they decide to start delivering to Iceland, so I have some time

Larger tires: The offroad tires should ideally have about 1" extra rubber on them (since the suspension will be set to "very high" where possible, "high" the rest of the time - giving more room in the wheel wells). I imagine that 1" larger OD is about the most one could add on "high" without risk of bouncing up against the wheel wells?

Clearance: If the air suspension stroke is like with the Model S, then "High" would add 0,9" and "Very High" would add 1,3". Combined with an extra inch of rubber, and the base 5,5" , this corresponds to 7,4" at over 10mph / 14 kph and 7,8" at under 10mph / 14kph. I wouldn't try lava fields or glaciers on that, but the primary potholed / washboard "bulldozer-made" roads? Yeah, I think that's just fine. But what about water crossings?

Water: Wish I had better data for what levels are okay, but we can try to derive them. Clearly, Model 3 must be able to handle driving through "normal" levels of water in a city, because standing water happens, and you can't have gasoline cars happily driving through while Teslas die from a splash. Specifically, it must be able to handle them at low suspension settings, since some people will run in low all the time, so ~4,8". So on "very high", with an extra inch of rubber, this would put the offroad config at handling water "Three inches deeper than the maximum city water accumulation that the car would be tested to"

What about water that's unexpectedly deeper? We've probably all seen Teslas functioning in "boat mode". But we've also probably also seen Teslas that have flooded. I think the best description of the behavior, from what I've seen is "if the car enters water level and low speed, it should float and stay functional for some number of minutes, but might (will?) slowly flood over time" Hitting water at speed, or at an angle (such as sideways), seems to result in a rapid shutoff (at least as far as Model S goes) - but if exposure isn't too long, the car is often recoverable, and sometimes just needs to drain to reboot. Some have even started back up after surprisingly long water exposure times, although this seems to be the exception, not the rule. Again, though, these are limits that I definitely wouldn't want to be pushing up against!

I wish we could have some more detailed data from Tesla quantifying the risks associated with different water levels. With a gasoline car it's easy to quantify: if the air intake gets flooded, you'll flood the engine and the car will die. If it doesn't, you won't, and it won't. But with a Tesla, it feels like so much guesswork.

Any other things that should be considered?

 

Extra rims: An extra set of "junk" rims should also be on my to-buy list. They can be scratched up and ugly, but ideally lightweight. I could leave offroad tires permanently mounted to them.

In that case, you may just want to order a set of 18" Aeros with winter tires. Elon has already stated that a lot of work went into making them very light. That's why they went with a wheel cover instead of a one-piece wheel.

If you really think your rims are going to take some damage, then I'd suggest getting steelies instead. Steel wheels can be bent back in shape when damaged. Aluminum rims are harder and more expensive to repair.

Larger tires: The offroad tires should ideally have about 1" extra rubber on them (since the suspension will be set to "very high" where possible, "high" the rest of the time - giving more room in the wheel wells). I imagine that 1" larger OD is about the most one could add on "high" without risk of bouncing up against the wheel wells?

Yes, I bet that would be fine.

What about water that's unexpectedly deeper?

It's probably fine. Hopefully somebody who doesn't care about warranties will perform a test at some point. In the meantime, I've always loved this video of a Nissan Leaf undergoing deep-water testing.

 

Happy for you for the upgrade

How often do you plan to get out there? Is worth thrashing a somewhat hi-tech car? It will get damaged out of a standard road for sure.I agree with @garsh that a properly protected (painted) alloy wheel will save you some weight. I have used steel wheels for years for winter, they get all rusty and leaky. This is the first car that I will take the alloy route for winter, they might get leaky over time but they will look better for a while.

How about adding a skid plate for the battery, I would get very concerned with a dented one. I understand that's the whole point of getting the car as high as possible but that unexpected higher rock needs to be taken into account. Even if it's an al sheet with spacers, it would be better than nothing.

 

You know the state of your dinosaur better than I do and I get your point

I have to do some off-roading daily

Just imagine winter, in fact it's better when it's all white and smooth
Time will tell if I will regret not waiting for the air suspension. Then again what happened to my fellow ontarians could happen over in Québec anytime.
Sticking to the subject, lighting an issue or you travel in the summer?

 

Sticking to the subject, lighting an issue or you travel in the summer?

Well, you see, there's a little bit of snow on the highland roads during the winter. And when I say " little bit", I mean "up to a couple dozen meters in places"

Highland roads are only open in the summer. The biggest ones for maybe 4 months out of the year; the smallest sometimes never open at all. Do remember that some of these go right alongside glaciers, aka places where the snow never melts

 

For the price of fabricating and installing an air suspension + an extra set of offroad tires & wheels why don't you get something specifically for the type of overlanding you want to do? You can get a 90's or early 2000's Toyota Land Cruiser for $5k to $10k.

These things where built to have a 300,000 mile service life (meaning all that it needs for its first 300,000 miles are fluid changes, brakes, and tires). It does use dino juice however you have your Tesla for daily driving where as the Land Cruiser can be used for off the beaten path adventure. These things can sit for weeks and starts right back up with little fuss ready for adventure. Such a realiable beast of a machine that many of them unfortunately end up getting converted to make shift military vehicles in certain parts of the world after they've been used as mall crawlers... but a few still live on as unstoppable overland beasts. These are one of the few vehicles that actually go up in value with the right overlanding modifications and the right overlanding scars. Find one that was used as a mall crawler and save it before it gets sent to be a workhorse in someone's private military. (Then later convert it into a PHEV overlanding beast)

 

For the price of fabricating and installing an air suspension

Where did the idea of fabricating air suspension come from? I'm talking about waiting for factory air suspension.

why don't you get something specifically for the type of overlanding you want to do? You can get a 90's or early 2000's Toyota Land Cruiser for $5k to $10k.

1) In Iceland, you can't get a Land Cruiser in good shape for $5k. I could get $3k for even my bad-shape pickup if I wanted. The cheapest Land Cruisers for sale right now on our equivalent of Craigslist (bland.is) are nearly $7k, and have nearly 400k km on them.
2) Yeay, an ICE!
3) Yeay, no climate control without running a rumbling engine and emitting exhaust that can kill you in your sleep, while out in a place where nighttime temperatures are generally below freezing!
4) Yeay, buying fuel for my trip at - in US terms - $8 a gallon- for a vehicle that averages 13-14 mpg.
5) Yeay, spending many thousands of dollars on something I have no interest in! Plus extra annual maintenance, registration fees and inspection costs!

.... No.

I don't understand what's confusing about not wanting to own or drive an ICE, on this forum of all places. I actually want to institute a policy in my new home, that an ICE will never be driven into its garage.

Also, I think I pointed out that even the gravel road to my land isn't exactly smooth sailing.

Thankfully it's not that long, only about a kilometer like that

Besides.... I'd miss one of the best parts. You pull up to some campsite in the middle of the wilderness in a Land Cruiser, nobody will blink an eye. You pull up there in a Tesla, on the other hand....

 

Actually... have you looked into the Jaguar iPace? Was jointly developed with Land Rover.

Seems alot more capable off the beaten path than the Model X.

 

Less interest in that than a Model X. Even more of a guzzler than an X, despite being significantly smaller. Made by an ICE company that keeps resorting to gimmicks and misleading ads to sell it. Inferior technology. Heck, the batteries are just pouch cells - want to hit them with a rock? Much lower production volumes = probably much more expensive to get parts. Short range. Slow charging. The "out of my budget" factor. The "just plain don't like it" factor. Etc.

 

Very cool of your parents to upgrade the battery, I think that is one of the best choices you could make especially given the current lack of supercharging in Iceland. Funny you should ask about driving through water, on my way home yesterday we had a torrential downpour from the monsoons. It actually derailed 27 train cars, so I'd say that qualifies as a bit of rain. Anyway the streets and freeway were all flooded and usually this would be stressful driving but Autopilot took out all the stress and I just kept thinking "Glad I'm not in an ICE car and don't have to worry about the engine stalling". I didn't know that the Model S had a history of loosing power in deep water. I didn't drive through anything too crazy deep but at times I did have more water on the windshield than I could see through. The car handled it with no problem but it did seem to splash more water onto the front of the car and windshield than I would of expected in other cars.

 

I've never seen evidence of a Model S losing power just "driving" normally through deep water losing power (and there's a famous video of one floating as a boat):

You can tell that at one point near the end of the tunnel the wake even washes up to windshield height.

But I've seen plenty of cases of:

* Model 3s subject to rising water losing power (and if left in the water for protracted length of time (such as days waiting for the water to go back down), sometimes (usually?) having a ruined battery pack as a result)

* Model S driving into deep water quickly (aka, at least some impact or at least heavy wake activity) losing power instantly, bobbing at an angle, and very slowly - eventually - sinking.

* Then there's this case:

It seems that the problem in their case wasn't so much that they were driving in water, but that - not being able to see the road - they drifted off the side into a drainage ditch that was much deeper, which the car then entered at a diagonal. But thankfully, after the car had a chance to drain, it rebooted and was (mostly) just fine.

My take seems to be that - if entry is gentle and level, Model S (and presumably 3) should float and maintain power... until it doesn't. Hours? Possibly. Minutes? Probably. Less than a minute? Possibly. Your guess is as good as mine And there's no guarantees. Using a Tesla as a boat is not in accordance with the warranty conditions

Lol, could always fill the open spaces with foam and add a keel.... I sense an episode of Top Gear coming on!

 

It's a legitimate thing. The car is designed to float for some (non-disclosed) length of time. The wheels even act like impellers. But it's not the sort of thing I'd recommend pushing one's luck on I wouldn't exactly expect warranty coverage if you show up at a service centre and start off, "So, I was floating my Tesla across a lake, and the wheel thrusters were working fine, but the power cut out and I had to row it back, and it started filling with water....."

 

Interesting thread, Karen.

Maybe there's a future Model3Offroaders.com? Available to register, btw...

You know, the Model 3 has pretty decent ground clearance. None of those roads scare me, except of course the rock field. The Model 3 has surprising good approach and departure angles. This is the first car I've had in a long time that doesn't scrape the nose on parking curbs. I kind of miss that slow grinding sound that says so plainly, "You, sir, have arrived."

The water crossing would be interesting. You know the electronics are in the penthouse, so that's cool. I'd be cautiously optimistic (and be doing occasional google searches for "Model 3 crossing deep water").

P.S. Those bigger wheels will be a good way to keep kilometers off of your Model 3.

P.P.S You going to do the whole naming thing? You could name yours Astrape, maybe?

 

Ah, I know that curb-grinding sound all too well with my Insight

Unfortunately, even the main roads have *some* lava fields to cross. They generally hit fewer, at gentler points, and do more to level them with sand, but they're still not comfy! The sight of a lava field ahead is always a "Oh geez, here we go again... " moment. Even pahoehoe isn't great, but of course it's a'a that's the killer. Once you've driven a road more than a couple times, you find your mind making up names for all of the lava fields as waypoints.

The main threat along 95+% of the length of the "main roads" is however the washboarding. I mean, it can be rattle-your-fillings out harsh - at least in my pickup. You know, I always think of air suspension in the context of ride height rather than comfort, but in the case of washboarding.... it might make that a whole different experience.

Washboarding on the main roads is often bad enough that the non-rocky parts of the side roads can actually be more comfortable than the main roads. They're often a lot more slippery, though. And a lot more unpredictable, too - a hard-to-see big rock or dip might just suddenly jut out unexpectedly in what's otherwise a "good patch", so you have to be prepared for it. On a "really good patch", you might get up to 40-50 kph (25-30 mph), but when you hit a lava field, you usually have to drop to 5-15 kph (3-9 mph), and sometimes even less. I've spent hours at a time averaging no better than a walking pace

Yes, a highland trip in my pickup usually comes with suspension system / wheel repair bills But again, I wouldn't put my Model 3 through as challenging roads as I put the pickup.

 

I can vouch for a 3 in this situation

 

I can vouch for a 3 in this situation View attachment 11459

Tried any fords or badly washboarded roads yet?

 

There was and Edmund's Death Valley Shock test where by the end all 3 trucks blew out their shock absorbers... and one truck lost some trim pieces. I'd worry about how it affects things like the Model 3's electronic systems and that glass roof.

The way around that is to go slow or modify to beefier shocks with external reservoirs.... which again $$$$. All this electric offroading has me thinking of getting a Baja VW chassis or Dune buggy and installing a Tesla powertrain in it. If you think about it, it would make a great toy, little maintenance, charge it up where ever your RV is parked, then hit the trails. Down side is you'd have to put a siren on it so other's will hear you coming especially if you're playing in the dunes.

 

Any clue how much upgrading one's shocks generally costs?

ED: Just watched that video. That's just embarrassing for those trucks. Shock failure in *that* short of a length of time (partway down a washboard road that's only 25 miles / 40 km long? A typical highlands trip is a couple hundred km!) Trim falling off, in that short of a period of time? What pieces of junk! Even a stock Model X would do better than that

Interesting points about the unsprung weight of the wheels - that would definitely have an impact on how hard the shocks are working. *Definitely* want lightweight rims.

 

Another bonus: at 25 mph or less it wouldn't be crazy to see a range of ~1000 km.

 

Yeah, if it were paved I'm expecting range to come in closer to 400km / 250 miles in the highlands, due to all of the losses in the tires and suspension, and the extra stop and start, overwhelming the aero savings.

 

Sometimes you have no choice but to cross over the fords.

 

@KarenRei - I realize the temptation of the 3 is strong, but can I offer a couple of other options for you to shoot down?

1. If you really want soft-road/off-road capability, wouldn't it make more sense to wait a little longer for the Model Y? I mean, you've a lifetime for the Model 3, what's another couple of years?
   
2. Rather than put another pile of krónur into upgrades and modifications for something that you'll likely only do "Once or twice per year", why not just rent a capable ICE vehicle for those couple of weeks and enjoy your (stock) Model 3 on the paved roads for the other 50 weeks a year? I can understand the purity of a electric-only experience, but sometimes practicality needs to win out.

And to your original question, I only have about 6 miles of dirt-road driving in Zion National Park thus far, but the Model 3 handled it with aplomb:

But if I'd had the option, I'd have waited for air shocks too. More height is always better!

Happy trails...

 

can I offer a couple of other options for you to shoot down?

Well, at least you knew where this was going

If you really want soft-road/off-road capability, wouldn't it make more sense to wait a little longer for the Model Y? I mean, you've a lifetime for the Model 3, what's another couple of years?

1) About $6k more in energy costs between now and then, as I live in a country where electricity is cheap but gasoline is $8/gal.

2) I've already mentioned before that I don't want to be driving around in my daily life in a larger, less efficient vehicle. I love efficiency. The last car waiting list I was on? Aptera.

3) I'm sure Model Y will be just as much of an "urban cruiser" as Model 3 - just a bit higher. I doubt Tesla will make an actual rugged vehicle until the pickup.

Rather than put another pile of krónur into upgrades and modifications for something that you'll likely only do "Once or twice per year", why not just rent a capable ICE....

You knew I'd stop right at that word, right? How many times do I have to write:

I Have No Interest In ICEs. Ever again. Period. Do we really need to keep raising this? Do I need to go into the numerous reasons why I hate them? Their downsides are only amplified, not minimized, when you're talking about a highlands trip. Louder constant droning, when you're in a place where you're wanting to enjoy the almost eerie silence - with an ICE you only get that for the few minutes whenever you stop and shut off the engine, and whenever you're camped for the night. No climate control, in a place that dips to near freezing (or below) every night. Unless you want to start that annoying engine. Horrible efficiency at low speeds, so you have to carry extra cans of gasoline, so then get the pleasure of getting gasoline on your hands (or even clothing) as you pour it into your tank, and spill some on the pristine ground. Surrounded by the pristine air that you're dumping pollution into. All of the *normal* annoyances of owning an ICE in addition to this.

No. N.O. No ICEs. No interest in them. Period. Okay?

And to your original question, I only have about 6 miles of dirt-road driving in Zion National Park thus far, but the Model 3 handled it with aplomb:
View attachment 11473

Well, that's a start!

 

Best solution is probably "drive it until it breaks and hope there's a better aftermarket solution available by then"

 

Durability is more important than comfort, so obviously any solution that might create more heating is right out. I think maybe the best solution might be to drive as quickly as I feel comfortable (minimize suspension travel per ridge, aka per unit distance, aka heating per unit distance) and plan frequent (hourly? half-hourly?) stops to take a 15-30 minute hike or whatnot.

The first route I'm thinking of isn't a very long one, by highlands standards: 200km from Gullfoss to Blönduós.

Obviously, I wouldn't want to push my luck on a "first trip". It's almost all "main road", except for the location I was thinking of for an overnight stay (Kerlingarfjöll), which isn't a very long minor road (10-16km each way, depending on where I stop... some river crossings involved):

It's a pretty spectacular-looking place that's been on my TODO list for several years now, but I've never gotten one of those "Round Tuits"

A nominal 310 miles range would be 500km of range, versus 200km of required main route range plus 20-30km of detour range and probably another 30km lost due to an overnight stay. So it really gives some margin for energy consumption to be lost due to the poor road quality (which again I expect to be more than the energy saved by the lower speeds). The last 40km or so of the route also has some farmhouses in the area that could make for a potential "emergency charge stop" if need be. Oh, and the road quality really improves on the north end, and the last 25km are actually on the Ring Road, so I could really stretch that if I needed to Part of the southern end (near Gullfoss) isn't that bad either.

While there's tons of really neat things to stop and see to give the suspension a chance to cool down, the challenge is "things to stop and see that don't require you turning off onto a minor road and then driving *that* for some distance But I've got plenty of time to think about that aspect, lol.

If energy consumption proves low enough, I may later try some of the longer highlands crossings further east. One of my favourite places is Askja, but I've gone there so many times that I should probably try some new places out there, lol Maybe Kverkfjöll. But unless the Model 3 proves unexpectedly good at handling rocky roads, I probably wouldn't want to subject it to the roads in that area. They're not just washboardy, they're lava-fieldy.