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Would you like to have 22kW AC charger for your Model 3/Y?

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Background explaining my reasons to start this poll
I live in Prague/Czech Republic and currently don't have my own wallbox. DC infra is growing but not exactly ubiquitous. Local utility company has recently started putting 22kW AC chargers on transformers, light polls... and they are growing rapidly in numbers. For first 2h they charge only for energy and after 2h there is additional fee just for occupying the connector. So, the speed of AC charge is not only important for me in financial terms but also not to waste capacity of the network and provide this service to more drivers.

I want to know if my more people would be interested in this feature. Thanks for taking your time.
 

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Some of the older Model S had an 80-amp dual-charger option (19.2 kW).
And for a short period of time Tesla offered a 72-amp onboard charger as an option on the Model S/X (17.3 kW).
They no longer have either as an option (reference).

It sounds like you're in a rather unique position compared to the rest of the world when it comes to charging. If the higher charging is important to you, it might make sense to buy one of these older S/X instead of getting a new 3/Y.

currently don't have my own wallbox.
By "wallbox", do you mean an EVSE, or an outlet?

Are you unable to add one (example - if you live in an apartment, or rent a house rather than own it, or just don't have off-street parking)?

How do your electricity rates at home compare to the rates charged by the utility companies to use these public charging stations?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Some of the older Model S had an 80-amp dual-charger option (19.2 kW).
And for a short period of time Tesla offered a 72-amp onboard charger as an option on the Model S/X (17.3 kW).
They no longer have either as an option (reference).

It sounds like you're in a rather unique position compared to the rest of the world when it comes to charging. If the higher charging is important to you, it might make sense to buy one of these older S/X instead of getting a new 3/Y.

By "wallbox", do you mean an EVSE, or an outlet?

Are you unable to add one (example - if you live in an apartment, or rent a house rather than own it, or just don't have off-street parking)?

How do your electricity rates at home compare to the rates charged by the utility companies to use these public charging stations?
S/X is too expensive and too big for me. By not having wallbox I just simply mean that I live in a complex of about 600 flat units with no private socket at my parking lot. In fact, I have underground parking lot but you would not believe how difficult it is to actually bring my private cable there (legal stuff, you need your private meter, contract, ...) I do not say that I might not finish this journey that I have already started half way, but there is a lot of resistance. I'm currently driving Renault Zoe. It does have 52kWh battery and 22kw AC charger. I have a shopping center just cross the street and this car charges there within 2h. So far the easiest solution for me.

If I finish my private socket, I will get about half the price per kWh compared to what I pay in public stations. But the cost of the project will be something like fuel for 150.000 km, the is some start penalty :)
 

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S/X is too expensive and too big for me.
Here in the states, a used 2015 Tesla Model S costs less than a new Model 3 or Y. But yes, it is a lot bigger.

By not having wallbox I just simply mean that I live in a complex of about 600 flat units with no private socket at my parking lot. In fact, I have underground parking lot but you would not believe how difficult it is to actually bring my private cable there (legal stuff, you need your private meter, contract, ...) I do not say that I might not finish this journey that I have already started half way, but there is a lot of resistance. I'm currently driving Renault Zoe. It does have 52kWh battery and 22kw AC charger. I have a shopping center just cross the street and this car charges there within 2h. So far the easiest solution for me.

If I finish my private socket, I will get about half the price per kWh compared to what I pay in public stations. But the cost of the project will be something like fuel for 150.000 km, the is some start penalty :)
Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. EV ownership has a lot of benefits for homeowners who can charge at home. Without that ability, EV owners must make more sacrifices.

Good luck in your pursuit!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Here in the states, a used 2015 Tesla Model S costs less than a new Model 3 or Y. But yes, it is a lot bigger.
All Tesla cars are a lot cheaper in US than EU (due to transportation, VAT,...), you lucky ba****ds :)

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. EV ownership has a lot of benefits for homeowners who can charge at home. Without that ability, EV owners must make more sacrifices.
All of our neighboring countries have subsidies... In the Czech Republic you must be hard-core electric car fan to drive one, believe me :)
Good luck in your pursuit!
I don't think life is about luck but execution :) I know that this a cliché... Just kidding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So how much are you willing to pay for it? It won't be free.

It may be more efficient to work with local authorities to get better charging infrastructure.
There is really no good reason not to offer it at least as after purchase offer at service center for the following reasons:
  1. I don't remember exactly but dual charger option for Model S in EU used to cost like 1-2k€.
  2. It does not add a lot of weight to the car, here is an example of such a module, 18kg (https://insideevs.com/news/392378/i...IUB3Tc8iVTFJUTrWFf3sWxMKBg4PY8O_M01Mo0p6V4a80)
  3. I'm sure that Tesla has already developed it's own module that is even more efficient and lighter
  4. I hope that Model 3 coming out of Berlin factory will have 100kWh. It would take realistically at least 11h to charge it from 11kW charger

I know that future is DC. I know that the best solution would be to install DC wallboxes (this is also one of the top requests towards Tesla on moretesla.com). But at present AC wallbox is 10x cheaper than DC equivalent. I know that if one station should service more than 1 car, it makes a lot of sense to put it into the charger rather than the car. But tell this argument to our utility company. I'm glad that they are doing at least something.

I can imagine how this request might look from US perspective - all of you have home charger and superb DC network. We have 4 Superchargers in our country and what our utility companies are doing has been if I'm polite I would use word "substandard".
 

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I can imagine how this request might look from US perspective - all of you have home charger and superb DC network. We have 4 Superchargers in our country and what our utility companies are doing has been if I'm polite I would use word "substandard".
This is the point that you need to get real. 4 Superchargers covering 30451 sq mi? The state of Georgia, of which I'm in, is 59.525 sq mi. Up until the last year or two, we only had about 6 Superchargers, for twice the territory. My neighboring states, Mississippi and Alabama are about the same size and only have 6 today.

So you aren't necessarily in an underprivileged forgotten by Tesla, area.

Not everyone in the US has access to charging at home. Those that are in condominiums and apartments rarely do, as well as those who rely on on-street parking. Many don't have the additional capacity to even support the 11 kW charging. Some charge on 14 kW connection and are perfectly happy with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
This is the point that you need to get real. 4 Superchargers covering 30451 sq mi? The state of Georgia, of which I'm in, is 59.525 sq mi. Up until the last year or two, we only had about 6 Superchargers, for twice the territory. My neighboring states, Mississippi and Alabama are about the same size and only have 6 today.

So you aren't necessarily in an underprivileged forgotten by Tesla, area.

Not everyone in the US has access to charging at home. Those that are in condominiums and apartments rarely do, as well as those who rely on on-street parking. Many don't have the additional capacity to even support the 11 kW charging. Some charge on 14 kW connection and are perfectly happy with it.
Then why don't you support my petition? :) If anybody is happy with 11kW, he can still charge at 11kW with 22kW charger. If this is only installed at service center after purchase, they don't have to pay for it if they don't want it and Tesla still can have streamline production. They just have to provide the 22kW module to service centers. They have already developed it for Model S. Why don't they do the same for Model 3? Why they discontinued it for Model S? Elon, good reasons???

And one more thing - in EU we have 3-phase 220V (phase to ground), 380V (phase to phase) at any location. In this aspect, we are much better off than US.

P.S. If Tesla does not listen, I'm keeping my Zoe. It is a cute little car :)
Zoe.jpg
 

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Then why don't you support my petition? :) If anybody is happy with 11kW, he can still charge at 11kW with 22kW charger. If this is only installed at service center after purchase, they don't have to pay for it if they don't want it and Tesla still can have streamline production. They just have to provide the 22kW module to service centers. They have already developed it for Model S. Why don't they do the same for Model 3? Why they discontinued it for Model S? Elon, good reasons???

And one more thing - in EU we have 3-phase 220V (phase to ground), 380V (phase to phase) at any location. In this aspect, we are much better off than US.

P.S. If Tesla does not listen, I'm keeping my Zoe. It is a cute little car :)
View attachment 37652
The standard mobile connector included in every Tesla charges at a max of 7kW. My guess is that Tesla recognizes a low percentage of people invested in the wall connector that supports 11kW which meant there's no need to offer an even more powerful (and therefore higher cost) solution if they can't get people to invest in the current one. BTW, even at 22kW, you'd need 3+ hours for a full charge. Odds are it'd still be faster to drive out to a supercharger, fill up, and continue your trip. You'd be hard pressed to find a recurring theme of someone NEEDING to charge in under 7 hours, but .is still ok if it takes 3.5 hours. It's either you're ok waiting overnight to charge, or you don't want to wait long at all (and v3 superchargers will take care of that group).

Also, the Zoe IS a cute car, wish we had more options like that here in the US. My daughter will be driving this year and I would love to get her something like that.
 
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Then why don't you support my petition? :)
Because there isn't a need for it. As was mentioned earlier, the Model S had it, but it was rarely used.
It costs a lot to do an addition like that. You've got to find space for it, you've got to cable it in. As an add-on, that's even tougher, because you have to build the ability to do it after point of sale.
Tesla is effectively building Ford Model T's at this point. "You can have any color you want, as long as it is black" Adding options to cars is a pain. Maybe one day.

Why don't I sign? It's not worth the effort to add the capability. And if you are going to keep your car, it's something that won't even impact you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I understand that the situation is different in US. It was not my point to address US people and it is also how I framed my petition. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all your feedback, I value your opinions and the time you invested in this discussion.

If I do pie chart of nationalities that supported me, it is clear that I could not get anywhere outside my own country:
Font Slope Parallel Circle Diagram


I'm a subscriber of Bjørn Nyland and Fully Charged (Robert Llewellyn). Both of them did review of Zoe and both of them mentioned how unique and useful this feature is. I was thinking that if I have any chance to gain serious support for my endeavor, I somehow need to gain their support. I contacted both of them and both them ignored me:)

I don't want to reiterate again my reasons that I have already mentioned. One more point is that 95% of all DC chargers deployed in CR are only 50kW. 90% of the locations have only one stall. If you arrive with your car and the DC connector is used, you are stuck. Since most cars currently on EU market have 7kW and all the new coming 11kW, AC connector is almost always available. I can tell you that before buying Zoe I rented almost any car on available in our market and drove it for 1-3k km (not just test driving but really living with the car for a while). From this experience I can tell you that most cars have Rapid-gate, Cold-gate, they throttle charging speed a lot sooner than at 80%... You would be surprised how little difference it makes if I now use only AC chargers with my Zoe. I'm investing this time to explain that if I decided to start this petition, it was not based just on reading an article on the internet or something but real-world experience. If you read my updates below the petition, you will learn more.

Honestly, I don't believe that there is no demand for it in EU. How I see it playing out is that the market started with 7kW, now all new cars have 11kW and in the future it will go to 22kW. I just recently saw that Audi is introducing it (article here).

If there is anybody from Europe, I would like to hear from you. I want to know if this is just my opinion or more people would share my view.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Odds are it'd still be faster to drive out to a supercharger, fill up, and continue your trip.
I have a lot of AC chargers in my location. Nearest is just 500 meters (1640 feet). Why faster?
  1. There is connection fee after 2h
  2. This particular charger is at underground location and parking fee applies after 2h
  3. If I charge faster, more people can use the public connector

Also, the Zoe IS a cute car, wish we had more options like that here in the US. My daughter will be driving this year and I would love to get her something like that.
I hope Tesla will introduce hot hatch in EU, but I hope that they will not compromise on range/performance and it will still have Tesla DNA.
 

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If there is anybody from Europe, I would like to hear from you. I want to know if this is just my opinion or more people would share my view.
If you want, I can try moving this thread to the Europe subforum. Maybe it will get more attention from Europeans there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
By the way, if there is any hard-core electrical engineering enthusiast who is interested how this box looks like and where it is located in Model S, here is YouTube video about it. This man is even disassembling the module and explains how it works.

P.S. I think that worst case if I lose my battle, I will ask Tesla to ship me the module with instructions how to install it, I will shoot a video of my DIY project and send it back to Tesla technicians so that they can validate I followed the instructions and validate my Tesla warranty :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Number of supporters has just surpassed 200 mark. Big shout out to all of you who supported me so far!

If there is anybody who would be willing to help me by sharing or advice me how I can reach bigger audience (FB group, forum,...) in your own country or other countries (especially biggest EV markets in EU like Norway, Netherland...), I'm all ears.

UqytcITAJpikSBQ-800x450-noPad.jpg
 
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