Sorry, never intended to offend. Just stating if one is to sustainable focused and goaled, let’s agree that hybrids don’t cut it. EVs work and are the sustainable path.
Prius Ramblings
Back in the day, Prius buyers and owners were pioneers. Why aren’t those current Prius owners trading in the EVs? Someone told me Prius owners are the largest movers to EVs. I don’t see it, I see Prius posers. Actually hybrid owners are hybrids. The current EV buyers and owners are the pioneers. Be proud EV owners.
If you are a hybrid buyer and owner that statically proven, never plug in, why haven’t you moved to BEV? Why be a poser?
If you are a hybrid buyer and owner that statically proven, never plug in, why haven’t you moved to BEV? Why be a poser?
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Then I’ll take this further and say personal vehicles don’t cut it.Sorry, never intended to offend. Just stating if one is to sustainable focused and goaled, let’s agree that hybrids don’t cut it. EVs work and are the sustainable path.
I'm surprised to see that people would buy a PHEV without plugging it in regularly. My father-in-law just bought his 2nd Chrysler Pacifica PHEV, and it works great for him. He doesn't drive that much, but probably buys 20-30 gallons of gas/year.
Agree iChris, like Tesla predicts, we will be moving to Robotaxis. Imagine hailing your neighbor's EV via your app for a quick run to the store.
The next big paradigm shift, ICE to EVs to EV RTs
we are seeing history in the making, again and again
The next big paradigm shift, ICE to EVs to EV RTs
we are seeing history in the making, again and again
If any of you think american adoption of public transportation is going to hockey stick (whether robotaxis or electric buses), then I have a bridge I'd like to talk to you about. Robotaxis will consume the current taxi/uber market but it won't increase it significantly. It's probably a better story outside of USA though.
I’m guessing he’s referring to mass transit. Even robo taxis can’t compare to mass transit in regards to efficiency.Agree iChris, like Tesla predicts, we will be moving to Robotaxis. Imagine hailing your neighbor's EV via your app for a quick run to the store.
The next big paradigm shift, ICE to EVs to EV RTs
we are seeing history in the making, again and again
I don’t know… our busses go round and round all day with barely a rider lolI’m guessing he’s referring to mass transit. Even robo taxis can’t compare to mass transit in regards to efficiency.
We are entering a time when anything is possible
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People are doing Doordash and Lyft/Uber, as drivers everywhere. Imagine, letting your vehicle just go when summoned and making money, both Tesla on the FSD charge ($199/Month) and the owner for the trip charge. Interesting how Tesla Enhanced Autopilot has summon, which might have been targeted for robotaxi all along and not to bring your car to you when its raining at the mall, but for the paying requester to get your EV for hire and then you summoning it home. Almost Star Trek future.
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The math seems compelling for the EV owner. And if Tesla builds a charge processing model around this, it could put all other current RideShares out of business long term.
Keep an open mind.
People are doing Doordash and Lyft/Uber, as drivers everywhere. Imagine, letting your vehicle just go when summoned and making money, both Tesla on the FSD charge ($199/Month) and the owner for the trip charge. Interesting how Tesla Enhanced Autopilot has summon, which might have been targeted for robotaxi all along and not to bring your car to you when its raining at the mall, but for the paying requester to get your EV for hire and then you summoning it home. Almost Star Trek future.
The math seems compelling for the EV owner. And if Tesla builds a charge processing model around this, it could put all other current RideShares out of business long term.
Keep an open mind.
Throw that math in the trash. Any time this kind of math is presented (the last time by General Motors) it makes a horrible false assumption: That they can handle the demand. With too much demand comes higher prices and shortages. I would have thought 2020 would have taught everyone that, including Elon Musk.The math seems compelling for the EV owner. And if Tesla builds a charge processing model around this, it could put all other current RideShares out of business long term.
Keep an open mind.
Here's the basic problem: Every day, for the most part, tens of millions of people in each city drive to work, and then leave their car in the parking lot for 8 hours. It would be ideal if those cars would then leave and drive other people around, but that's not where the problem lies.
The problem there is that providers of robotaxi services would need a fleet of tens of millions of cars to get those people to work and back. And they're not going to be willing to do that - they're going to want to keep just enough cars around for the demand halfway between rush hour and the absolute deadest part of the day.
So that leaves larger robotaxis to transport larger numbers of people to work in fewer vehicles. The problem with that is we have those already, we call them buses. And buses don't work so well because most cities are not designed in neat straight lines to get people to work, entertainment, and shopping. They tend to go in random directions. So buses end up only getting people 80%-90% there, and they have to walk the rest of the way. Maybe robotaxis might improve on that by going door to door, but the price to that is it's going to take a lot longer to drop all of the passengers off, making it almost as undesirable.
And that's where this leave us, with the word undesirable in terms of the performance of robotaxis. We'll have math thrown at us about how much better it is for our budgets and for the environment, and maybe we'll be forced into it as auto manufacturers really sink their teeth into the idea of a forever subscription for transportation, and make car buying impossible for all but the very rich. But it's not going to be the ideal it promises.
thought about a prius but figured hauling around an ICE engine and fuel tank while driving on battery was inefficient. Range anxiety is real but Tesla makes it easier. Charging time will add hours to a long distance trips but overnight charging at home makes commuting a breeze. Projected charge levels below %10 still make me nervous. I used to start hunting for gas around 1/4 tank. The charging stops get planned automatically. Trust the planning and take breaks in nearby stores.
Look at it another way: how many americans who own ICE cars are interested in renting them out to strangers? Do you think the reluctance of those who don't melts away with FSD?
The only massive value that gets unlocked with full FSD implementation is the money early FSD adopters have already paid.
The only massive value that gets unlocked with full FSD implementation is the money early FSD adopters have already paid.
FSD will extend my driving beyond the age where I should quit. never was about money for me. I wanted an EV since I was young. FSD is a bonus. not perfect yet but already taking the drudgery out of keeping it between the lines.Look at it another way: how many americans who own ICE cars are interested in renting them out to strangers? Do you think the reluctance of those who don't melts away with FSD?
The only massive value that gets unlocked with full FSD implementation is the money early FSD adopters have already paid.
Except it doesn't do any of that. At least not as it's being sold. Per Elon: "it may do the wrong thing at the worst time". Don't know about you, but that essentially means the "drudgery" is where that quote seems to apply the exceptionally well. Where the vehicle is supposed to just go on a straight line for 10miles, but it decides nope, going to go ahead and merge left into oncoming traffic 6miles in when your false sense of ease gets you to "zone out" just enough to delay a life saving reaction.FSD will extend my driving beyond the age where I should quit. never was about money for me. I wanted an EV since I was young. FSD is a bonus. not perfect yet but already taking the drudgery out of keeping it between the lines.
At the end of the day, as long as the driver is 100% responsible for FSD's behavior, then it's nothing more than a glorified tech demo.
at the end of the day i don't trust it and never relax. hoping some day to get there. not sure everyone who uses it really knows they can't relax. find out the hard wayExcept it doesn't do any of that. At least not as it's being sold. Per Elon: "it may do the wrong thing at the worst time". Don't know about you, but that essentially means the "drudgery" is where that quote seems to apply the exceptionally well. Where the vehicle is supposed to just go on a straight line for 10miles, but it decides nope, going to go ahead and merge left into oncoming traffic 6miles in when your false sense of ease gets you to "zone out" just enough to delay a life saving reaction.
At the end of the day, as long as the driver is 100% responsible for FSD's behavior, then it's nothing more than a glorified tech demo.
your you... why so hostile?6miles in when your false sense of ease gets you to "zone out" just enough to delay a life saving reaction.
I watch this youtuber who is a pilot instructor occasionally, and he often says that in a sudden emergency, it takes the average person up to 2 seconds to go from relaxed to seeing the imminent danger. I know I often ask the question “why wasn’t the driver paying attention”? In the strange case of FSD swerving into oncoming traffic suddenly, the driver might have been paying full attention, but didn’t recognize the danger fast enough.Where the vehicle is supposed to just go on a straight line for 10miles, but it decides nope, going to go ahead and merge left into oncoming traffic 6miles in when your false sense of ease gets you to "zone out" just enough to delay a life saving reaction.
Actually, on that note I was thinking that FSD could benefit from having a second task running that behaves like a back seat driver. If doesn’t watch as intently (like it would take way fewer snapshots) but would alert the main FSD task with “hey, what the hell are you doing??” when it’s trying to do something dangerous. It might be able to spot when FSD is preoccupied with some conflicting instructions.
That's an astonishing assertion (and where the available data grossly contradicts this). Absolutely not true for our family given that we operate our Teslas off solar panels, and don't pay anything other than tires and an occasional brake flush. Do you have formal data in support of this? Otherwise, this claim is absurd.Well, it costs about 1/3 the amount to own/operate a Prius than a Tesla.
Wow, I didn't realize Prius has gone up that much..This person did the analysis
View attachment 47969
Another point for T is that your can charge at home (regardless of whether you have a T charger at home) albeit much slower at regular 120 for topping of all night.
I do this, and overnight it provides about 25% top up.
The only downside is for long trips where you have to take 1/2 hours breaks every 2-3 hours.
As other people have pointed out, the use of the term 'posers' might be considered inflammatory. But the bigger context for all this is how is it that both Honda and Toyota – originally pioneers in reliability and efficiency memes in transportation – have both retrenched, have doubled down on the nonsense of hydrogen which is massively inefficient compared to electrification, and are dragging their feet and opposing tighter emissions standards that their hybrids WON'T pass. What makes people and for that matter corporations that were originally progressive in their thinking backslide? Not sure, but it is concerning.Back in the day, Prius buyers and owners were pioneers. Why aren’t those current Prius owners trading in the EVs? Someone told me Prius owners are the largest movers to EVs. I don’t see it, I see Prius posers. Actually hybrid owners are hybrids. The current EV buyers and owners are the pioneers. Be proud EV owners.
If you are a hybrid buyer and owner that statically proven, never plug in, why haven’t you moved to BEV? Why be a poser?
For the area where I live in, electricity prices have gone up 2.5x since I got my M3 in late 2018 (this is for off peak prices). And I only expect the prices to keep going up. Also in my area, at the peak of gas prices in mid-2022, it was about 1.5x compared to 2018, AND they have gone back down to almost 2018 prices since mid-2022.The most important thing to consider is that you will likely have the car longer than 3 years, and every 3 years we have some disruption that sends gas prices through the roof. While a hybrid will minimize that effect, If you have a full EV, that will have zero effect on you.
While I'm definitely still above water in terms of $$$ saving with my EV, even compared to our Prius, it's painfully obvious that my expected savings from 2018 has decreased substantially. At this rate, I'm genuinely concerned that within 5-10 years, EV fuel savings are going to be a wash compared with gas prices.
I'm aware demand for gas may affect gas prices if EV adoption keeps going up, but I'm just saying if all else is equal. Or worst case, the increase in electricity prices will decrease EV adoption.
TLDR: I have a full EV and the percentage increase in electricity prices over the last 4+ years has been much higher than the percentage increase in gas prices... in the area I live in.
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