Prius Ramblings

1730 Views 55 Replies 18 Participants Last post by garsh, 3 d ago

kpanda17

Discussion Starter · 10 d ago

Back in the day, Prius buyers and owners were pioneers. Why aren’t those current Prius owners trading in the EVs? Someone told me Prius owners are the largest movers to EVs. I don’t see it, I see Prius posers. Actually hybrid owners are hybrids. The current EV buyers and owners are the pioneers. Be proud EV owners.
If you are a hybrid buyer and owner that statically proven, never plug in, why haven’t you moved to BEV? Why be a poser?

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Klaus-rf

· #41 · 4 d ago (Edited)

Dfwatt said:
That's an astonishing assertion (and where the available data grossly contradicts this). Absolutely not true for our family given that we operate our Teslas off solar panels, and don't pay anything other than tires and an occasional brake flush. Do you have formal data in support of this? Otherwise, this claim is absurd.

In March 2015 I purchased, new, an Prius C OTD for $20,400/USD
. Then in Spet of 2018 I purchased an AWD Tesla LR AWD Model 3 for $64,233/USD OTD. The Tesla cost 3x as much.

The Prius uses 87 octane and gets a 55-65MPG on that 87 octane low grade petrol. Even if I exclude my travel use of SC's (which is much too expensive now compared to SC'ing in 2018!). and ONLY charge at home (where my solar has powered my house and cars for 14+ years) the Tesla costs 4-6x as much to insure. When traveling away form home, and using SCs, the Tesla costs WAY more than the Prius to own / operate.

Ohh, and I've NEVER had a software update in the Prius that disabled the car, lost settings, took away working features, reloacted critical function buttons / switches, etc.

JasonF

· #42 · 4 d ago

pdp1 said:
While I'm definitely still above water in terms of $$$ saving with my EV, even compared to our Prius, it's painfully obvious that my expected savings from 2018 has decreased substantially. At this rate, I'm genuinely concerned that within 5-10 years, EV fuel savings are going to be a wash compared with gas prices.

It might be, in some areas like in California. There is a very definite battle going on there where the power companies don't want to build infrastructure to generate more power, so they're trying to curb usage instead by dramatically increasing prices. Meanwhile, the state is pushing toward full EV adoption. There is going to be a collision between those goals at some point. Either the state will have to delay EV adoption to accomodate electrical grid issues, or they will have to subsidize power infrastructure builds.

Remember though, gas prices are far more volatile than electric prices, even if they might match each other from time to time.

I'm not saying a Prius is an awful car. It's worth it to a lot of people to gamble on some volatility to have a car that's lower priced and supports two fuel sources. It's just not what I want from a car long term.

12B4A

· #43 · 4 d ago

cdlp.test.dev said:
The only downside is for long trips where you have to take 1/2 hours breaks every 2-3 hours.

Which is what you should be doing anyway to mitigate the highway hypnosis discussed previously.

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JasonF

· #44 · 4 d ago

12B4A said:
Which is what you should be doing anyway to mitigate the highway hypnosis discussed previously.

You're never going to win that debate as long as there are people on this Earth who can drive for 8-10 hours without a single bathroom break.

pdp1

· #45 · 4 d ago

JasonF said:
Remember though, gas prices are far more volatile than electric prices, even if they might match each other from time to time.

I'm not saying a Prius is an awful car. It's worth it to a lot of people to gamble on some volatility to have a car that's lower priced and supports two fuel sources. It's just not what I want from a car long term.

Yes, I agree gas prices are more volatile than electricity, but that in fact is kind of my point: electricity prices have been increasing very consistently for me, and even with the volatile gas prices, it still has not increased nearly as much, percentage wise, as electricity. If anything, because of gas' volatility, it went back down to near 2018 prices recently.

Anyway, I wasn't really trying to defend Prius', I was just more curious if there are other areas that are experiencing electricity increases at such a high rate over the last several years, and where gas prices have not, relatively speaking. Or is this concern of mine just a California thing?

kpanda17

Discussion Starter · #46 · 4 d ago

And that’s my point with no I’ll intent and not to offend, but they are all posers
Honda and Toyota just came to market with pathetic pure EVs
They are delaying big efforts to move fully into EVs
Hydrogen has its place and not with passenger vehicles
Help start the ramp on the adoption S curve so we can all breathe better

garsh

· #47 · 4 d ago

garsh said:
@kpanda17 , I'm asking you to stop referring to people as "posers". I thought my previous post would be enough to convince you to stop.

We do not condone derogatory comments directed towards any group of people on this forum. We generally refer to that as our "no politics" rule, but it applies more generally than that.

kpanda17 said:
And that’s my point with no I’ll intent and not to offend, but they are all posers

You're choosing to ignore the request?

barbsimoesvt

· #48 · 4 d ago

kpanda17 said:
Back in the day, Prius buyers and owners were pioneers. Why aren’t those current Prius owners trading in the EVs? Someone told me Prius owners are the largest movers to EVs. I don’t see it, I see Prius posers. Actually hybrid owners are hybrids. The current EV buyers and owners are the pioneers. Be proud EV owners.
If you are a hybrid buyer and owner that statically proven, never plug in, why haven’t you moved to BEV? Why be a poser?

I had two Prius before my 2012-13 Model S. I wonder why you set such a negative tone. Actually, I found the Prius to be much more comfortable, and it was a very low maintenance car as well. The seatbelt was actually comfortable, whereas in my Model S, it goes right across my neck and every time I'm in the car, I worry about being decapitated if I'm ever in an accident. They're not adjustable. I sometimes resort to having to use a clothespin near where it comes out to allow for some slack. Classy!

I was one of the first to get a Prius, too. Everyone thought that they looked weird, but then every car was seemingly modeled after them. It was so roomy and I could put an amazing amount of stuff in it. Now, you're seeing cars "borrowing" the look of the Model S. Remember how everyone was screaming about how dangerous and distracting the touchscreen would be? Now, try to find a car without one!

I had been Googling "electric cars" for years, and then one day Tesla popped up. I saved my money and bought it sight unseen. I got the deep green color, which they only made for about a year. I live in Vermont, but was clear across the country, at a conference in Washington, where I got to test drive one. They met me there and let me drive it for quite a while. In those days, they actually had customer service: you could call and actually talk to a person and ask them anything. Now, I gotta say, I'm not so impressed with how the company no longer seems to appreciate the value of that. I hate the app and because it's so hard to communicate with anyone, and rarely if ever, has it helped with the issue at hand. I'm having serious doubts about getting another Tesla.

They are supposedly building a service center an hour from where I live, which may sway me toward another purchase if it becomes a reality; I'm needing a truck, and the Cybertruck may be in the cards, but we know so little about it that I'm just getting frustrated. Cost will be a big factor. There are features that I love, though. I love the tonneau cover and the ramp. My Model S is now over ten years old, and things like the 12 volt battery suddenly going make me nervous. The service center is really still just a rumor at this point.

Service is a big reason why people might not switch. When I got the Tesla, I had an eight year warrantee on it, so I didn't have to be too concerned. They would send a tow truck and drop of a loaner while it was being fixed. (The closest place was southern Mass. --a three or four hour drive one way. When I got it, I was assured that they were going to be bringing service to my area within a year or two... More than ten years later and I'm still waiting.

As far as this post goes, though, you come across as being unnecessarily confrontational. I felt I needed to respond to that aspect with great disappointment.

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danstockelman

· #49 · 4 d ago

kpanda17 said:
Back in the day, Prius buyers and owners were pioneers. Why aren’t those current Prius owners trading in the EVs? Someone told me Prius owners are the largest movers to EVs. I don’t see it, I see Prius posers. Actually hybrid owners are hybrids. The current EV buyers and owners are the pioneers. Be proud EV owners.
If you are a hybrid buyer and owner that statically proven, never plug in, why haven’t you moved to BEV? Why be a poser?

I purchased the original "Prius", an Early Honda Insight two seater. It came out before the Prius. I drove it over 20 years and more than 350,000 miles until a truck took me out from the side. Then I put in a home charger and switched to a Tesla. Still happy with it and proud.

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JasonF

· #50 · 4 d ago

pdp1 said:
Anyway, I wasn't really trying to defend Prius', I was just more curious if there are other areas that are experiencing electricity increases at such a high rate over the last several years, and where gas prices have not, relatively speaking. Or is this concern of mine just a California thing?

It's a California thing. I think I mentioned why above - the power companies are holding out for a subsidy for building out more infrastructure, because they know they have the state in a bind (being that EV's will be required soon).

kpanda17 said:
And that’s my point with no I’ll intent and not to offend, but they are all posers

You must use the term properly! A poser would be someone who would be pretending to embrace EV's to get all of the benefits, while staying firmly in the gas guzzling camp. That's why I made fun of people who buy the Chrysler minivan plug-in hybrid just to get close parking at malls and theme parks, but don't actually plug in otherwise.

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Darelldd

· #51 · 4 d ago

kpanda17 said:
My bad, I thought the original Prius pioneers were like the EV pioneers of today and focused on sustainability.
Sorry, but they look like posers.

There are so many things to consider here. And a huge one is that not everybody wishes to swap out cars everything couple of years when something new and shiny comes along. We can assume that when the Prius was purchased, it was the most benign vehicle available on the market. And perhaps that car is still working perfectly for them. Not everybody has the luxury of regular vehicle upgrades.

I own a Prius. Purchased new in 2006. I bought it because I needed an additional car at the time and it was literally the most enviro-conscious car to buy during that period. Why? Because there were ZERO EV options in 2006. It was a dark and troubling time where it looked like all of our efforts were for nothing, and that the car-makers had won the battle. We needed a backup for our 90-mile 2002 Toyota Rav4EV, and the Prius was the best car we could buy.

By 2006, We were on our third EV. Since year 2,000 we've had an EV as our primary vehicle (EV1, then Rav4EV, Ford Ranger EV) and as our family grew, we needed the Prius as a secondary vehicle. And two EVs since that time (Leaf and then Model 3), our Prius remains our secondary vehicle with our Model 3 has our primary.

So I see your "EV Pioneers of today" and raise you the concept that people who are buying their first EVs today are not the pioneers you may be thinking they are. But even so, I won't call today's EV buyers "posers." And perhaps there are some Prius owners out there who were driving EVs well before the Prius even debuted.

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FRC

· #52 · 4 d ago

I detest this thread and thus will ignore it going forward. But I feel compelled to say, before I leave, that this attitude has become so pervasive in our society as to be disgusting. All people don't think the same, believe the same, worship the same, or vote the same. And I'm thankful for this. If a Prius works for someone else, why the need to condemn them for it. Cut it out! Allow others an opinion that differs from yours. You're not always right, nor are they always wrong. The further we ride down this path of divisiveness, the worse our world becomes. OUT!!

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JasonF

· #53 · 4 d ago

FRC said:
I detest this thread and thus will ignore it going forward. But I feel compelled to say, before I leave, that this attitude has become so pervasive in our society as to be disgusting.

I've always had objections to the entire idea of "there can be only one winner, and everything else may as well just go away". One winner (and sometimes even two) causes innovation to be sucked out of the market because there is no competition; and then what you end up with is one mediocre, or worse, awful, product that is your only choice, so it costs a fortune. If you don't believe that, look at home appliances, where only two manufacturers make them all.

Where Toyota does deserve derision is for once being the leader of hybrids, and when EV's came along, they released...the bZ4X. Late, underpowered, over priced, and not very good. Do better, Toyota, really.

And I'm not letting you off the hook Nissan, either, with your abandoning a mature EV platform that you could have taken over the lower-priced EV market with, and instead scrapping it in favor of a half-baked attempt at harvesting money from more affluent luxury buyers.

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Dfwatt

· #54 · 3 d ago

iChris93 said:
Then I’ll take this further and say personal vehicles don’t cut it.

Over the long term, that may be true, but that would require a far more radical overhaul of transportation, in a fashion that the US (drunk on rugged individualism) will not tolerate for a very long time. If we can't even get reasonable gun laws, what do you think is going to happen when people can say "the government is taking your car away!"

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jtkrpm

· #55 · 3 d ago

yes. Raise your hands to the government, they will save us.

garsh

· #56 · 3 d ago

Dfwatt said:
If we can't even get reasonable gun laws, what do you think is going to happen when people can say "the government is taking your car away!"

jtkrpm said:
yes. Raise your hands to the government, they will save us.

And.... thread locked.

Keep the politics out of this forum please.

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