[Quicksilver]

I'm not that good at math, but generally when people are on long drives somewhere they consider only the cost of either "full tank" or total cost of the trip. Since it's winter in most of the U.S. right now, it's likely supercharging cost is getting close to or slightly higher than gas because of lower cold weather EV efficiency.

But I don't think that's the majority of people complaining. I think instead these are people who supercharge once in a while, and expected the cost for one charge to be much lower. They aren't calculating, just expressing that $30+ is what they used to pay for gas.

Now the important part, though: Those who are complaining forget something important. Gas prices are extremely volatile, halving or tripling in a matter of weeks. Electric rates are somewhat stable. So if you plan a drive next month, with an EV the total cost might be a gamble vs gasoline, but you know what it will be next month, as opposed to gas where it might suddenly cost 2x to 3x as much as you expected (it might also be half what you expected, but that's still a gamble).

And unless you’re an apartment dweller who does not have access to ‘home’ charging, charging at home is a much better deal. For me, it’s 13 cents/Kwh. With a 1500 miles road trip I did previously, there were stations that were more expensive (urban areas) and stations that were much cheaper but in the end the trip cost in ‘fuel’ was still cheaper on electricity than on gas. Many knows one of the advantages of driving EVs is ‘fueling’ from home which is much cheaper than gas.

 

[JasonF]

Many knows one of the advantages of driving EVs is ‘fueling’ from home which is much cheaper than gas.

This is one of the things that holds back EV adoption - a lot of people don't know about the possibility of charging at home. They do an apples-to-apples comparison, filling up gas vs charging at a fast charger - which is faster and which costs less? And then they wonder what if they buy an EV and put up with longer charging times, and then gas prices fall through the floor. A lot of them aren't considering that if they use at least some level 1/level 2 charging (if unable at home, then at work, or while shopping, etc), even low gas prices can't beat that.

Where gas presumably beats EV's still is in excessiveness. That's where the car dealer convinces you that you really need this huge 10000 lb SUV that seats 8 and has a 500 mile range because you never know when you're going to need to go on a road trip off-road through a lonely desert with 7 other people. Which for 99.9% of drivers is most likely never. But it's easy for people to be talked into that because of the fallacy of "if I'm going to spend this kind of money I need a vehicle that does it all, no matter how small the chance of it actually happening". In the end you get a heavy gas SUV that gets 7 mpg and costs $100 a week to fuel just to drive 1 person to work and back.

 

[tencate]

In mid-2018 I drove from home to LA and back. About 1800 miles. Total cost for supercharging then was $88. It's considerably more now and the price of electricity has not increased by the same percentage near as I can sort out. Yes, charging at home is way cheaper than gas (especially if you own your own solar). But of my 143k miles, about 1/5 of them are highway miles where Superchargers are the only option. It hasn't stopped me from taking Max everywhere though, I still prefer an EV on a long drive over our Volvo and yes, even though a Toyota Camry hybrid would definitely be cheaper than Max, even in the summer (53 mpg on regular gas).

 

[Ed Woodrick]

The residential rate for electricity here is about 20 cents/kWh. My perception is that there are places it is cheaper, but places it is much more expensive. Nearby SCs are between 29 and 34 cents/kWh. I think that is a reasonable rate given that there is equipment that has to be maintained and delivering at 150 to 250 kW is a much more advanced/complex system than my home at less than 20 kW.

Rate here is 8 cents in winter and 12 cents in summer. In the winter that puts me at about 2 cents per mile or 110 miles per gallon. (gas at $2.20)

 

[vjkumar]

Rate here is 8 cents in winter and 12 cents in summer. In the winter that puts me at about 2 cents per mile or 110 miles per gallon. (gas at $2.20)

Wow where do you live?

 

[Ed Woodrick]

Wow where do you live?

Georgia, but there are a lot of states with similar pricing, some even better

 

[garsh]

Wow where do you live?

Pennsylvania has similar rates. Mine varies monthly, but is currently 10.5¢/kWh.
California and parts of the northeast are higher, but the majority of the continental US is more in this lower range.

 

[vjkumar]

Pennsylvania has similar rates. Mine varies monthly, but is currently 10.5¢/kWh.
California and parts of the northeast are higher, but the majority of the continental US is more in this lower range.

California is higher. Home charging is at roughly 38c/kWh. Of course Supercharging is much more. Ouch.

 

[FRC]

California is higher. Home charging is at roughly 38c/kWh. Of course Supercharging is much more. Ouch.

California and economics don't seem to get along.

 

[Ed Woodrick]

California is higher. Home charging is at roughly 38c/kWh. Of course Supercharging is much more. Ouch.

But so is gas.

 

[Ed Woodrick]

California and economics don't seem to get along.

Sure they do, but when CA pays 3 times the amount for gas, they also tend to get paid 3 times the salary as the remainder of the country.

This is where having a factory in CA make so little sense to me. I guess that's why Tesla chose Texas, everything is a third of the cost. (Which equates to 3 times the profit!!!)

 

[FRC]

Sure they do, but when CA pays 3 times the amount for gas, they also tend to get paid 3 times the salary as the remainder of the country.

This is where having a factory in CA make so little sense to me. I guess that's why Tesla chose Texas, everything is a third of the cost. (Which equates to 3 times the profit!!!)

I'm gonna bet that the average worker's net income in California relative to cost of living is WAY less than ours in Georgia, Ed.

 

[garsh]

I'm gonna bet that the average worker's net income in California relative to cost of living is WAY less than ours in Georgia, Ed.

Or they commute from an hour+ inland for their jobs. Most of California's insane prices (and great weather) is along the coast.

 

[tivoboy]

California is higher. Home charging is at roughly 38c/kWh. Of course Supercharging is much more. Ouch.

While that is true, home charging rates have gotten MUCH more expensive in the past 4-5 years, going from ~ .18c to 36-45c per kWh, and on the road supercharging can be easily 45c-55c+, I have SC nearby that charge .23c up till 08:00 PST (used to be 10:00 PST) and some 250 kWh chargers that charge that rate all day long so Tesla I think must get electricity rates that are much lower at various times and are either willing to sell at cost or small profit to behaviorally lock in users.

 

[tencate]

Supercharging prices seem to be getting worse. Just did a trip from Santa Fe NM to Grand Rapids MI and back. 3000 miles or so. Spent $306 on Supercharging. Yes, I stopped and used destination chargers both directions to save some.

Had I taken our Volvo V70 (34 mpg), I would have bought 88 gallons of gas at approximately $3/gallon = $264. The wife says next long trip we go back to using the Volvo, Supercharging is not only time consuming but more expensive. :-(

It used to be compelling price-wise to take an EV on a long trip. It is most definitely not true anymore. This makes me sad. I've lost one of the main reasons why I liked and promoted my EV to others.

 

[Nom]

Yeah - kinda stinks. Figuring build out and maintenance of the network isn’t cheap. That said, the enjoyment I get from driving my Model 3 exceeds our alternative ICE car by far. This is particularly true for road trips.

 

[tencate]

This is particularly true for road trips.

I get "wife pushback" whenever we come to a busy Supercharger and she has to wait more than 40 minutes or so (like in OKC yesterday...every stall filled and 75 kW forces an awfully long wait on a cross country drive...) In the past she was tolerant of the wait because it was significantly cheaper to Supercharge. Now the "fun" is over and she's back to being practical. Me? I prefer my EV for long trips too (148,000 miles so far), but maybe not if prices are going to continue to go up.

 

[Nom]

If I had waits at SC like you mentioned, I would shift to ICE as well. That sucks.

On that note - Really freaking hope the opening of SC network to other brands doesn’t screw us.

 

[FRC]

but maybe not if prices are going to continue to go up

I believe that Tesla is very close to having Supercharger prices where they want them. Roughly equivalent to ICE prices.
And it does suck that we've lost the benefit of road trip savings. But remember, your real savings are local, at home, pull out of the garage savings. Those savings are real, they're significant, and they represent over 90% of most people's driving miles.

 

[tencate]

And it does suck that we've lost the benefit of road trip savings. But remember, your real savings are local, at home, pull out of the garage savings. Those savings are real, they're significant, and they represent over 90% of most people's driving miles.

which is why when I read they're thinking of ways to charge EXTRA (some sort of surcharge) for charging electric vehicles at home I worry... all they have to do is take away the "at home" cost advantage, plus the extra cost of registering an EV in many states already on the books, and it'll be cheaper to run a gasoline vehicle... perhaps I'm being a "conspiracy theorist" here but I've seen what powerful lobbying like big oil and car dealers can do