[TrevP]

In case you missed a point in my Tesla battery video on Youtube, here's an article about wire bonding which is the technique employed by them to connect the cells together. A thin wire acts as a fusible link for each cell and doesn't require high temps to bond and thus doesn't damage the cell.

https://chargedevs.com/features/a-closer-look-at-wire-bonding/

 

[Gary Moore]

I loved seeing the wonderful words in the article about a Tesla's "US patent application." For the potentially uninitiated, these words mean "We have figured out a novel and non-obvious application for actually properly doing this kind of stuff, and now it's hopefully legally going to become ours for a while, so dear competitors, please just try copying our patented processes and our lawyers will simply eat you for lunch. Have a nice day. No wonder your battery packs cost so much."

 

[TrevP]

Funny thing is, Tesla released all of their patents so anyone is free to use them "in good faith". So far we haven't seen any results from their noble efforts. They're still ahead of everyone else.

 

[Gary Moore]

Yes, no good deed goes unpunished. I'm just bemused by all the press trying to pretend that Tesla is not real. "Pay no attention to that Model 3 behind the curtain! We could build one in 12 months, if only we wanted to do so! It must be a horribly non-profitable endeavor!"

Yeah, that explains a lot.... Vision is a cheap trick. See you at the movies.

 

[Gary Moore]

The auto industry is a very long story, but tomorrow will not be cancelled because some don't catch on to a new paradigm.

I'll quit my ranting and do something rational, like posting a link:

http://cleantechnica.com/2016/04/27/tesla-model-3-pricing-battery-pricing-unveiled/

 

[AEDennis]

Since we're talking Tesla's battery technology, I figured to share the following posts that I just wrote a blogpost (and an article on Teslarati) on Plug in America's battery survey, which focused on the Model 3's predecessing vehicles, the Roadster and Model S.

Just another way to demonstrate to current Model 3 reservation holders, who are not currenty Tesla owners, that they've "picked a good horse in the EV race."

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Since we're talking Tesla's battery technology, I figured to share the following posts that I just wrote a blogpost (and an article on Teslarati) on Plug in America's battery survey, which focused on the Model 3's predecessing vehicles, the Roadster and Model S.

Just another way to demonstrate to current Model 3 reservation holders, who are not currenty Tesla owners, that they've "picked a good horse in the EV race."

Thank you so much for this. It's only been a couple of weeks and I was already getting a little tired of the nay sayers, especially over on the TMC site. I mean, I think we all understood what we were getting into when we put down our reservations. We don't need somebody coming along three or four times a day telling us that we wasted our money and time...GET OVER YOURSELF ALREADY!

Thanks Again,

Dan

 

[MelindaV]

I also don't understand the thought process that says you need a 500+ mile range. If the upgraded battery cost was not outrageous to go to 300-sh miles, I would be happy with that. If it is a huge cost, 215 will be fine with me. Maybe the cars I've driven are gas hogs with small tanks, but if I get 250-300 miles per fill-up things are good. (since my typical city driving/idling gets me right at 200)
Yesterday I had to be just outside of Seattle for work (about 140 miles ea way) and filled up when I left and got home with just over a ¼ tank left. With the standard Model 3 range listed, I would stop at the SC that's about the half way point, but it's the exit I generally stop at anyway for coffee, when gas is needed, restrooms, etc.

 

[xxZULAxx]

The way I look at it, it is a chance to see places that are in-between otherwise I would drive by and never notice.

 

[TrevP]

The laws of diminishing returns comes into play with range. Tesla has said many times they can make bigger battery packs to enable longer range however the weight, cost and charge time make them impractical. They chose the sizes they did based on many factors.

Everyone wants more range but the realities of common daily usage dictate otherwise. People who have not owned a Tesla have a constant fear of the "range anxiety" boogeyman living under their bed. It's not an issue of range, it's an issue of education.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

The laws of diminishing returns comes into play with range. Tesla has said many times they can make bigger battery packs to enable longer range however the weight, cost and charge time make them impractical. They chose the sizes they did based on many factors.

Everyone wants more range but the realities of common daily usage dictate otherwise. People who have not owned a Tesla have a constant fear of the "range anxiety" boogeyman living under their bed. It's not an issue of range, it's an issue of education.

For the most part, I agree with you. I have been driving a Volt for the last 4 years and even with just a 30-40 mile range on a charge I have still managed to drive 80% on electric only (daily commute is 14 miles round trip). However, this will have to be a family vehicle and we do take several trips out of state each year. The superchargers should make this a breeze. I view the bigger battery as insurance against my own stupidity!

Dan

 

[garsh]

I also don't understand the thought process that says you need a 500+ mile range.

• Cold weather
• Battery degradation over time
• Higher speeds
• Snow/rain on the ground
• Long trips
• Lack of supercharging on many routes

Just because a car is rated at 215 miles range, doesn't mean it's actually going to get that range in the real world all of the time. I was quite happy when I first got my Leaf. I could go 90-100 miles in it! I have a 30-mile commute, so I could make it to work, back home, and back to work again on one charge! Here I am, four years later. I have to charge at both ends of my commute in the winter, due to battery degradation and the range-zapping effect of the cold. Yep, can't even make it 60 miles on one charge any more.

 

[TrevP]

I will be getting the larger battery pack for 2 reasons:

1. To reduce the impact of cold weather affecting the range.
2. Enables fast charging at Superchargers for longer road trips.

Notice I didn't mention "longer range". To me range is more of a factor of how hard you drive. It's more important for me to charge faster and thus less time at a Supercharger to get those Kms without trying to eek out a bit more range and spend more time with a smaller pack.

 

[AEDennis]

• ...
• Lack of supercharging on many routes

Just because a car is rated at 215 miles range, doesn't mean it's actually going to get that range in the real world all of the time. I was quite happy when I first got my Leaf. I could go 90-100 miles in it! I have a 30-mile commute, so I could make it to work, back home, and back to work again on one charge! Here I am, four years later. I have to charge at both ends of my commute in the winter, due to battery degradation and the range-zapping effect of the cold. Yep, can't even make it 60 miles on one charge any more.

Especially that I-80 direct route (right now)... That's been planned forever, we had to go from Ohio down to Maryland and back up to go to New Jersey last year... It was...

...great, got us to be in the car longer!

Honestly, enough range to make the drive from charger to charger with a good 40 miles above for "just in case" is pretty good sweet spot.

That being said, I find that my (driver needs) are shorter than my Model S range... So, if I get a consistent 255 miles, I'm good.

 

[MpowerSkills]

I also don't understand the thought process that says you need a 500+ mile range.

I feel like I need 500+ range because I can from time to time end up driving 200 miles in a day, zig zagging around northeastern Ohio without a supercharger anywhere close enough to save me. Also this happens in the heat of summer and in freezing cold winters. If I'm only supposed to charge to 80% on a 300 mile batteries that only leaves me with 240. And some of that 240 will get used up by heating the car or by inefficient driving because I won't be able to warm the car up while plugged in during meetings. This could make for a very stress full and distracting day, as compared to how it is now with my gas car, I don't even think about any of this stuff.

 

[MpowerSkills]

I will be getting the larger battery pack for 2 reasons:

1. To reduce the impact of cold weather affecting the range.
2. Enables fast charging at Superchargers for longer road trips.

I'm really concerned about the cold weather affecting the range. How does a bigger battery help? Doesn't a cold battery loose its charge when cold no matter the size? Are you only referring to the need to heat the car using up energy? How do the batteries behave when they're cold and you have to drive without warming them up via plugging in?

 

[garsh]

I'm really concerned about the cold weather affecting the range. How does a bigger battery help? Doesn't a cold battery loose its charge when cold no matter the size?

Yes. But since a larger capacity battery has more capacity to begin with, it'll also have more capacity than a smaller battery when the weather gets cold.

But also, it doesn't "lose charge". The battery is simply not able to deliver as much electricity when it's cold. If you take that cold battery and manage to warm it back up, you'll find that it's back to "full charge". This article has a more detailed explanation of the processes involved.

 

[MpowerSkills]

Yes. But since a larger capacity battery has more capacity to begin with, it'll also have more capacity than a smaller battery when the weather gets cold.

But also, it doesn't "lose charge". The battery is simply not able to deliver as much electricity when it's cold. If you take that cold battery and manage to warm it back up, you'll find that it's back to "full charge". This article has a more detailed explanation of the processes involved.

Ok, thanks for the link! Good article. But it doesn't say that I'll be ok, it basically says I should plug in over night when at home, that's no problem. My problem is during the day when working. Do you think I'll be able to drive 170 miles on an average winter day if I bought a Model 3 with a 250 max range and had no ability to plug in anywhere but at home?

 

[xxZULAxx]

Ok, thanks for the link! Good article. But it doesn't say that I'll be ok, it basically says I should plug in over night when at home, that's no problem. My problem is during the day when working. Do you think I'll be able to drive 170 miles on an average winter day if I bought a Model 3 with a 250 max range and had no ability to plug in anywhere but at home?

If you assume 10 miles extra just in case 180/250 = 72% or 28% battery degradation. To me 30% sounds a lot and i hope it is much less.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Batteries hate cold. I have stated in other threads that in the winter I often see 40-45% less range with my Volt. It's something you learn to expect and plan for. This is why I will be purchasing the largest battery they offer when the time comes.

Dan