I am an American. That means I have no class. This isn't a feudal society.

The people who truly think that acquiring things allows them to trumpet their 'status' in society all remind of the folks that hang out in trendy nightclubs, who all remind me of the people I didn't like and couldn't get along with in high school.

 

Of course, @Red Sage , I fully agree with you... just funny that Teslarati is in California...

 

Let's please go back to the origin of this ramble about status. Which is nothing more than showing who we are.

The Teslarati article said: "The Tesla Model 3 may very well become one of the most significant markers of status stability, with its associated components of having a college education, white-collar work, economic security, and home ownership. Soon, many upwardly mobile consumers will be adding "owning a Tesla" to that definition."

The interesting point not being that people in general attach much value to status - which can't be denied - but that "owning a Tesla" is already seen as status by a large group of the professional population. An 'upstart' and 'deviant' American (which is not seen as an advantage in the rest of the world) car company achieving this position in a few years almost worldwide is a huge acomplishment. Evidence of the huge steps that Tesla is ahead of the other car makers.

 

Let's please go back to the origin of this ramble about status. Which is nothing more than showing who we are.

The Teslarati article said: "The Tesla Model 3 may very well become one of the most significant markers of status stability, with its associated components of having a college education, white-collar work, economic security, and home ownership. Soon, many upwardly mobile consumers will be adding "owning a Tesla" to that definition."

The interesting point not being that people in general attach much value to status - which can't be denied - but that "owning a Tesla" is already seen as status by a large group of the professional population. An 'upstart' and 'deviant' American (which is not seen as an advantage in the rest of the world) car company [achieving] this position in a few years almost worldwide is a huge [accomplishment]. Evidence of the huge steps that Tesla is ahead of the other car makers.

I do not deny that there are, from a certain perspective, definite advantages to that perception being held by potential Tesla Motors Customers. Nothing at all wrong with having a product line and brand image that is in many ways desirable to those who can afford to purchase them. Mostly, I'm noting that the concept of 'status' is not a motivating factor for ME at all, never has been, never will be. What this article does do is that it exposes something I had not considered (because I wouldn't) and that is how others will perceive the purchase once I have the Model ☰.

A friend of mine chastised me for buying a Honda Accord EX Coupe a little over 25 years ago. He did so, because he presumed my reasons for doing so were entirely about 'status'. He assumed that I was 'part of the problem' where Americans were buying foreign cars and abandoning The BIG Three automakers in Detroit without due cause. He also went on and on about unions and jobs and other stuff... I eventually managed to stop his diatribe and note: 1) I don't give a [FLAMING FIG FART] about 'status' and that if I did I would have purchased something crappy like a Mercedes-Benz 190D or BMW 318i; 2) That I did MONTHS of research before getting the Accord comparing a wide range of vehicles before making the final decision; 3) I grew up in what was practically 'GM Land' and was a big fan of Chevrolet vehicles in particular, but in all the ways that matter most (price, fuel economy, emissions, performance, safety, reliability...) the Accord was simply the best vehicle available; 4) Certain cars were eliminated from contention either because they were ugly or only available as Sedans, when I wanted a proper five-place Coupe, not a 2+2 hatchback or luxoboat; and 5) I actually 'settled' for my FIRST choice, as I would have got an Acura Legend Coupe instead if I could afford it. Further, I pointed out that the main reason I got the Accord was that of all the foreign brand cars on the market, it was actually built in MARYSVILLE, OHIO and to my eye it LOOKED the most AMERICAN.

Sure, I get emotional. But I make decisions in a manner I consider to be rational. I have wanted an electric car since I was five or six years old. The WANT is emotional. The REASON is rational. The other 'status' cars the Model ☰ will compete against, from Acura, Alfa Romeo, AUDI, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, Jaguar, Lexus, and Mercedes-Benz are not vehicles I would even begin to consider as a NEW purchase for myself. I might have got a used Cadillac ATS-V Coupe, BMW M235i, or Mercedes-AMG C63 Coupe if I could get a good deal on them perhaps five years from now, had Tesla not come along. But now? TESLA ALL THE WAY, BABY!

 

Overall disliked the tone of the article. I get what shes saying but the 3 is going to be a car almost anyone can afford. You can use the ride sharing to offset costs or just the general savings of an EV alone will enable the car to almost pay for itself given time. I think most of us want one because it's such a compelling EV, not to try and show off to the neighbors.

 

+42! EXACTLY. The Ultimate Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything about "Why Is the Tone, Timbre, and Twist of this Article So... WRONG?" Yes. The Model ☰ has a tough audience to win. Yes. A lot of the heavy lifting has already been taken care of due to the success of the Tesla Roadster, Model S, and Model X. But even if some people have a mental checklist of acquisitions to achieve or arrive at a perceived level of 'status' that is a PERSONAL problem and has nothing to do with the product itself or the company that makes it.

 

It really surprises me what negative associations you guys attach to the term 'status'. Which in my eyes is nothing but a normal human emotion to compare ourselves with other people.
Coming from people from the US, one of the most status oriented societies in the world, where everything is put in terms of money. "How much I'm worth" is something we Europeans would never say.
Anyway, I leave it at this. I will stop posting in this thread.

 

It really surprises me what negative associations you guys attach to the term 'status'. Which in my eyes is nothing but a normal human emotion to compare ourselves with other people.
Coming from people from the US, one of the most status oriented societies in the world, where everything is put in terms of money. "How much I'm worth" is something we Europeans would never say.
Anyway, I leave it at this. I will stop posting in this thread.

Interesting. Goodbye.

 

That's a great point you make @Red Sage, at this point in time we are looking at the best(end) of ICE vs the possibly worst (infancy) of EV and EV is already winning. I say Elon deserves the very best of success for making the EV motoring a true reality for us.

 

@Red Sage is correct about old tech vs new tech. This is a great talk on automotive disruption that everyone should watch.

 

Really impressive. Confirming our / my beliefs. I hope there are no flaws. Because it would make the world a better place and much more prosperous in the long run.

 

@TrevP , my solar installer sent me that link last week. It reminded me of this interesting video too...

 

This video is such a poor production that it is painful to watch no matter if you agree with the conclusions.

Everything about it is bad except the content and the conclusion. Bad lighting, video, audio, graphics and presenter.

 

Yes! I've seen both of those videos before, and love them from beginning to end! Absolutely required viewing for EV Enthusiasts!

 

I agree about the quality of that video... It was pretty bad. Near the end he mentioned the good slides of Tony Seba and said that he hopes Tony gets the whole picture. The guy in the video you could tell he was a genius like Elon, same way of talking and he had so much to say he didn't know what points to bring out.

 

I think someone may have mentioned that guy was banned from TMC.

 

Last one before I call it a night... yet I can't pass on sharing this one with y'all on the other side of the pond...
Killer article from Forbes (courtesy of Evannex ) in which the writer expands on the concept of disruption (which is why I put it here in connection to earlier posts on the Bruno Seba speech) to call for courageous self-destruction of a major ICE carmaker... so, who will that be...?

Good night...

 

That was a good read Russo. And a very true outlook on these auto makers.

 

I like the title and concept behind the article.

I had been hoping that maybe Volvo, Mitsubishi, or Mazda might be so courageous as to abandon ICE in favor of EV. I was encouraged somewhat to learn the entity that had purchased SAAB intended to switch its operations to fully electric. But with so many of the 'big boys' going with hybrids, ie 'electrified' cars, it has become clear that those that are struggling for market share won't be taking any so-called 'risks' at all. None of these companies has the ability to assess risk factors for potential benefit. They are all a bunch of followers, masquerading as leaders.

It will be awesome when Tesla releases a fully electric full-sized pickup truck to overwhelming positive acceptance and major sales levels.

 

I think it will take longer than 8 years. If I had to guess, I would say 15-20 years for it to happen.

 

Depends on what you are talking about. Few new petrol cars may be available in 8 years. Older petrol cars will last longer. Reduced numbers of gas stations will make a huge dent in people's willingness to buy new petrol cars.

 

There's no way gas cars will vanish in 8 years. This is a multi-generational thing. North America and Europe will certainly move faster but lots of other counties will lag behind for a long time coming. Tony is great and all but he's delusional to realities of car replacement cycles.

 

I think Tony is referring to building new ICE cars, not about having no ICE cars on the road.

 

Damn!!! I just realized I will have no excuse to go to WaWa's anymore. I will have to admit I'm going to a gas station to eat rather than fuel up and grab some food due to "convenience". Just when you think technology is going to improve your lifestyle, it rips your heart out!!

 

True...but look at it this way.

By then you can run down to the local "Zap'n Snack" and claim the same thing! Zap'n Snack will have replaced Quick Trip by offering fast charging and snacks while you wait!.

Dan

 

When Petroleum comes out of the ground, it is separated into a natural gas stream, a crude oil stream, and a waste/brine water stream. Petroleum from Pensilvania has long chain carbon molecules that make great lubricants, but have only a small gasoline fraction. West Texas crude have a heavy tar fraction, a modest gasoline fraction, but enough branch chain HC to be great petrochemical feedstock. Middle east crude have a higher gasoline fraction, and a lower heavies end.
These different crudes suggest that lower gasoline demand simple means the refineries of the world simply adjust their fractionating columns to produce more chemical stocks and less fuel stocks. I don't see the petrochemical industry having much heartburn over the loss of gasoline sales. They get to sell to a more profitable user.
Now the local gasoline stations, the fuel hauling trucks, and gas tax collection points will suffer. But the stations may pivot to sell electric juice and coffee. The tax man will find a way to pay for the roads. The truckers may have to find a different load to haul in a different direction, but only the tanks themselves will become obsolete.
The oil business won't be hurt, won't dry up and go away. It will simply pivot to other fractions.

 

Now the local gasoline stations... will suffer. But the stations may pivot to sell electric juice and coffee.

Some will. Since most EV charging is done at home for local driving, we won't need *nearly* as many charging stations as we require gas stations. The majority will go out of business. Or convert to be only a convenience store.

 

I wouldn't call this a car that "anyone can afford" because it's not, but if I suddenly think I have earned some kind of status by purchasing a car that 400,000 people have purchased I may be misguided.

So much ignorance out there.

Maybe as I have aged (and I'm still relatively young at 32), I have come to the realization that a car is for me and my family and not for anyone else. I am getting the car I want to drive and being seen in said car has no bearing on my purchase decision. For me this car is important because: I like the way it looks, it's "cool" from a techy nerd perspective, its safe (2 little ones will be in the back seat a lot, its fast (instant torque is fun!), it's good for the environment (because why wouldn't you want that in the end), and it's part of a bigger purpose (note I am a big believer in Elon and his vision). Nothing on that list suggests I want this car so that I can drive with the windows down and make sure everyone I drive past knows its me (though they'll see my Tesla grin anyway I'm sure).

It's funny, in college I had a relatively new Audi A4. A girl that I was interested in at the time dismissed my car as being inferior to a BMW 3 series that was roughly 10 years older than my Audi at the time. I remember that moment and realizing that in her mind a BMW was superior to an Audi, so even though my car was 10 years newer, had a fresher design, bigger rims, newer tech, etc.; in her eyes it was a competition of the tiny badge on the hood and trunk.