[shareef777]

When I bought my Model 3 in 2018, I bought into a promise and a dream. Spending almost $50k on a car was a stretch for me, and I wouldn't have even tried if I thought it was a temporarily discounted $65k car. Because I try to think ahead until the next time I replace the car - I didn't want to buy it like it would be a one-time thing, and next time I would get a more reasonably priced car from someone else. The promise and dream part of it was that by the time my car gets old, there would new, lower priced Teslas, and that once they'd proven themselves viable, other manufacturers would be forced to produce reasonably priced EV's as well.

So here we are 4 years later. The cheaper Teslas don't exist and never will (they were cancelled), the best I could hope to "upgrade" to someday is a lower range model that costs the same as mine did in 2018, and will probably be going up very soon. And as other manufacturers watch Tesla retreat back into ultra-luxury space, they get the message that's the only way EV's will ever be viable, and cheaper EV's will be rare to nonexistent for the foreseeable future. They realize Tesla's dream and promise are dead, they believe the EV fad is fading away, and the only risk they will be willing to take with EV's is in their own luxury space.

That's really what some of us are complaining about. Not that Tesla isn't giving away the Model S for $25k, but that they broke their promise, and left no EV future for those of us who believed in it but don't have a lot of money to throw around.




I'm concerned that won't happen. Tesla used to be a company that invested its profits back into the company and R&D for new models, but they're not doing that now. They don't even have any solid plans for more production capacity. Whoever is running things there now is favoring doing what a lot of other manufacturers (of just about anything) do - increase profit margin, pay to stockholders, rinse and repeat. Only make changes when the company is on the verge of failing because of lack of change.

100% spot on. I want Tesla to be the EV FOR ALL! It pains me that I know many friends and family will never be able to own one. Shoot, even my own children will likely not own one. I don't have the same feelings or passions for Lucid, Taycan, or other high priced EVs because they started high and remained high. They're no different than Ferrari and Lambourghini, expensive toys for those with expendable income. Tesla wasn't SUPPOSED to be that, but that's the direction they're heading and it sucks. Not sure why anyone would be on-board for that. Sure, it may be a greater success for the business, but why care about the success of a business that's catering themselves exclusively to the higher echelon of the population?

 

[garsh]

100% spot on. I want Tesla to be the EV FOR ALL! It pains me that I know many friends and family will never be able to own one.

They'll get there again, but it's going to take a few years before the economy recovers from events of the last couple of years. The recent onslaught of parts shortages and inflation has thrown a wrench in Teslas plans.

When Tesla revealed the Model 3 in 2016, they said it would start at $35,000, which was the average price paid for a new car at the time. Today the least expensive Model 3 is $48,490, which is a huge increase. But the majority of that increase is due to inflation. The average price for a new car in January 2022 was $47,100:

New Car Price Keeps Climbing, with Average Now at Almost $47,100

Reduced supply, increased demand: It all adds up to higher prices for the new-car-buying public.

www.caranddriver.com

That was back in January. The auto sector hasn't gotten any better since then.

New-Vehicle Affordability Declines Again in May, Typical Monthly Payment Hits New Record of $712 - Cox Automotive Inc.

New-vehicle affordability worsened again in May, with increases in interest rates and vehicle prices outpacing income growth. The number of median weeks of income needed to purchase the average new vehicle increased for the fourth consecutive month reaching 41.3 weeks in May from an upwardly...

www.coxautoinc.com

 

[JasonF]

They'll get there again, but it's going to take a few years before the economy recovers from events of the last couple of years. The recent onslaught of parts shortages and inflation has thrown a wrench in Teslas plans.

Maybe, but I'm not so certain anymore since they cancelled the concept of a $25k EV. Not even increased that to "Ok we can't do $25, but we can do $30k" - just cancelled it, like less than $48k will never be viable.

When Tesla revealed the Model 3 in 2016, they said it would start at $35,000, which was the average price paid for a new car at the time. Today the least expensive Model 3 is $48,490, which is a huge increase. But the majority of that increase is due to inflation. The average price for a new car in January 2022 was $47,100:

That number is kind of misleading. I've been watching several models from several companies, and the "average new car price" has been increased by automotive manufacturers discontinuing a lot of low-end models because they are cars, and not crossover or SUV's. Crossovers and SUV's have higher prices, and larger profit margins. So they created an "average price increase" without actually raising prices.

Also, we live in some kind of crazy era where anyone who makes cars has decided that people below a certain income aren't going to buy new cars anyway, but used ones, so they aim their products at higher-income customers. The truth is, though, they do that because higher-income people are less price discriminating, and won't go in with a budget or haggle. So they can set the margins at 60% or 100% and the customer will pay it.

 

[PNWmisty]

Our difference is that I view Tesla and other manufacturer's in a similar light when it comes to how they run their business. They run it for profit, not some altruistic agenda. You fault other manufacturers for their lack of EV vehicles when it's shown that ICE is more profitable for them, but in the same sentence praise Tesla when they bump their prices higher than the inflation rate as "market value".

Simple put: I see it as ALL manufacturers are following the market to make a profit above all else the best way they could.

And lets not talk about "bragging" cough*FSD*cough.

I said that legacy auto has been bragging about how many EVs they will be making for years but they haven't lived up to their claimed production. They talk a big EV talk but they don't walk the EV walk. This has nothing to do with FSD timeline estimates. Tesla has been almost spot on with their production estimates going all the way back to projections Elon made in 2012 when their stock went public. His long-term EV production volume projections were ridiculed by legacy makers at the time as being completely unrealistic and "pie in the sky", but he hit them on schedule. Look it up. There is a problem of not enough EVs to meet demand and no real competition in the EV market. This is not Tesla's fault. Not at all.

I don't expect automakers to run their business in an altruistic manner or I wouldn't have invested in TSLA stock in 2019. I expect good returns on my invested capital. Tesla makes higher profit margins on EVs than legacy auto makes on ICE vehicles. And that includes legacy autos highest profit margin vehicles, big SUVs and trucks! Tesla makes roughly three times as much profit as legacy auto makes on ICE vehicles and that's on smaller volume and AFTER the $7500 federal tax subsidy expired! The reason legacy is struggling with profit margins on EVs is because they don't take them seriously and they didn't plan to make them in high volume. That is not good business, that's a failing business! And most of their EVs are still subsidized with the $7500 federal tax credit! So it's unclear to me why you are on an EV forum defending legacy auto and throwing shade on Tesla for something that is not their failing!

I get it, you want a cheap EV. But it's not a good look to blame it on Tesla, especially considering that you have already admitted you don't think automakers should be altruistic. Business is not a charity.

Have you considered buying a Ford Mach-e and taking advantage of the $7500 federal tax credit? Why do you blame Tesla for the lack of cheap EVs? In time, Tesla will drive the price of EVs down to bargain levels but it' going to take a while to catch up with robust demand without some significant help from legacy auto.

 

[Madmolecule]

These post are way too long for a bumper sticker. Elon Take a Sabbatical

If Elon was a real leader, he would talk about the German, Chinese or Texas government like he talks about his own.

WHEN Elon leaves to become an influencer like he stated who will be the thought leader for Tesla

 

[Madmolecule]

The vaporware pyramid scheme, Has historically been very good for the stock price. The over the air updates have been only used at his excuse to not finish the product. I see they’re pushing their acceleration upgrade scam again. I thought if they made the software better, you would get it for free. I’ve already been a victim of this. I would think Tesla would be smart enough to make a package with a small piece of hardware so that it is not just an over the air update. It does not make me trust the other ones. You have to pay for car acceleration, but I got catquest for free? I’m sure you feel you got a great deal.

 

[Madmolecule]

Warning: you are driving near an automated car of the future. by future I mean the auto pilot should be complete in late 2023. This Vehicle will do stupid things at stupid times. You have been warned.

 

[JasonF]

Warning: you are driving near an automated car of the future. by future I mean the auto pilot should be complete in late 2023. This Vehicle will do stupid things at stupid times. You have been warned.

Going back to the original thread topic:

Elon Is Not My Space Dad!

 

[shareef777]

Tesla has been almost spot on with their production estimates going all the way back to projections Elon made in 2012 when their stock went public.

Haha, good one

 

[Madmolecule]

In Goth we Trust

 

[PNWmisty]

The hate for Tesla and Elon Musk demonstrated here is pathetic! This place is a cesspool of hate and envy of a man and a company trying to make things better for the human race. America (and the world) needs more people like him. It's thinking like that displayed here that caused manufacturing to die out in America. Along with that went millions of good paying jobs and it made America dependent upon Asia for everything from pie tins to American flags.

It's sad to see prolific posters focus their energy on such misguided narratives that are not based on reality.

 

[JasonF]

The hate for Tesla and Elon Musk demonstrated here is pathetic! This place is a cesspool of hate and envy of a man and a company trying to make things better for the human race. America (and the world) needs more people like him. It's thinking like that displayed here that caused manufacturing to die out in America. Along with that went millions of good paying jobs and it made America dependent upon Asia for everything from pie tins to American flags.

And I'm complaining because he's letting that slip!

I've said for a long time now that Tesla has had a constant internal battle going on. Some parts of it want to lean toward mainstream, and others were happier when it was an ultra-luxury company, before the days of the Model 3. Right now, the second faction is winning, and it's doing so because Elon Musk has gotten distracted by SpaceX (which actually runs itself pretty well, and doesn't need babysitting), the Twitter purchase, and politics. He needs to go back to the "old Elon" who slept in the Tesla factory until deliveries picked up - someone who refused to be distracted, and keep the company on focus.

Without that, Tesla is sliding back, and it makes me sad to see it.

 

[sonoswen]

Got to agree with JasonF>>>>
"He needs to go back to the "old Elon" who slept in the Tesla factory until deliveries picked up - someone who refused to be distracted, and keep the company on focus.

Without that, Tesla is sliding back, and it makes me sad to see it."

If that is hate, well, guess I am guilty. Mea Culpa,Mea Culpa MeaCulpa

 

[shareef777]

Got to agree with JasonF>>>>
"He needs to go back to the "old Elon" who slept in the Tesla factory until deliveries picked up - someone who refused to be distracted, and keep the company on focus.

Without that, Tesla is sliding back, and it makes me sad to see it."

If that is hate, well, guess I am guilty. Mea Culpa,Mea Culpa MeaCulpa

Apparently you’re either 100% in or you’re not

 

[Madmolecule]

The hate for Tesla and Elon Musk demonstrated here is pathetic! This place is a cesspool of hate and envy of a man and a company trying to make things better for the human race. America (and the world) needs more people like him. It's thinking like that displayed here that caused manufacturing to die out in America. Along with that went millions of good paying jobs and it made America dependent upon Asia for everything from pie tins to American flags.

It's sad to see prolific posters focus their energy on such misguided narratives that are not based on reality.

yes there may be a little hate, but it’s really just my frustration for believing he was a great engineer and actually developed some of the things he said that he did, especially full self driving. The big Elon lie he is still perpetuating today. It is one thing to say you are developing it and it will be released any day, it’s another thing to sell it with a depreciating asset known as a vehicle. I do not envy him at all, being the richest guy in the world has still not made him happy or quenched his ego. And by the way Elon has built a factory in Asia, Why not build them all in Texas and slap an American flag on each one. I’m sure the Chinese are learning anything from the Tesla factory that they could copy. Or is Elon learning from them?

It’s almost like someone is more upset about his stock tanking than owners having buyers remorse. Feel free to complain about owners expressing their feelings and opinions on a product they purchased on a forum dedicated to just that. I’m sure there’s some tesla stock forums where are you can do the Elon Circle flirt. He has done more damage the Tesla stock with his statements that some disappointed owners ever could.
Still trying to see how making bots to replace factory workers and being anti-organized labor is better for the human race, or were you referring to colonizing mars. I would just ride off on my high horse, but I was never offered one.

In his latest interview, Elon talks about finally buying some advertising because he says magazines we’ll talk bad about Tesla and for protect their advertisers, since they don’t advertise. The smartest guy in the room just figured out how journalism and magazines work.

since I am a Robo taxi Alpha Shepherd living in unified vector space I will keep you updated.

but I did not realize the poor guy was homeless and only spent a dollar a day on food, I will try to do better like my hero.
Elon is the biggest spreader of Fantasy Uncertainty and Doubt

 

[Nom]

@PNWmisty - I’m with you. I read the posts of critics that chirp at things that are minor relative to the epic progress and change Musk has drive and think of Teddy Roosevelt’s speech about people that actually stand in the arena vs the critics that enjoy throwing barbs vs doing the work themselves

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic

We need more Elon Musks. More people that will see major global issues and take on the challenge to drive change in a way that will work … for example, taking into account human incentives and emotions (economics and markets).

It is sad to see people saying … where is the $27k car!? Musk is horrible for not delivering it!! How dare Tesla raise prices when parts supplies and batteries are hard to get?!! Production is so limited right now due to capacity constraints that this is not the right move to drive major change. Make money and expand now. Leave room for other car makers to enter market and make at least some money at it. Leave room to pay suppliers more to ramp production. The game theory here is real. Step back and think harder about how to drive this big change Musk is promoting.

Musk deserves massive credit and accolades. Are there issues people can complain about with great justification? Yes! Feel free. I take issue with the ‘holier than thou’ tone, the hatred some spew and the refusal to give credit for the big picture major achievements.

 

[Madmolecule]

as an electrical engineer and someone who has been living in electric house, with electric motors for years maybe I missed the revolution . I’m sorry, maybe we can list his accomplishments here.

inventor of electricity
invented the battery
invented the electric AC motor
invented the DC to AC inverter
The first person to run an electric motor from a battery through an inverter
invented the battery charger
Invented the air conditioner that runs off power and not a fan belt.
Invented cruise control
Invented touch screen interface with navigation.
Invented using cameras on cars and having them park automatically
invented manufacturing cars on an assembly line using robotic technology
automating this manufacturing so much that it can be moved to anywhere even if they have unskilled labor
Built an ecological Paradise
invented rockets
top designer of a flightsuit, not a spacesuit.
Invented the giga press, I mean bought it from a German company.
Taught Berlin and all of Germany how to manufacture a vehicle
Taught China about Automation and how to build rockets
Realize that rich people can get richer as the workers would just work harder and in the office, certain country restrictions apply
able to make a $44 billion purchase while using only 5% of his brain space, that’s a big brain. I use more than 5% on self pleasure But I’m just guessing because I don’t know how to evaluate my brain space

Taking my hundred dollar deposit for a trimotor cybertruck, that they already stated would never be built. I’m glad I locked my price in

 

[JasonF]

It is sad to see people saying … where is the $27k car!? Musk is horrible for not delivering it!! How dare Tesla raise prices when parts supplies and batteries are hard to get?!! Production is so limited right now due to capacity constraints that this is not the right move to drive major change. Make money and expand now. Leave room for other car makers to enter market and make at least some money at it. Leave room to pay suppliers more to ramp production. The game theory here is real. Step back and think harder about how to drive this big change Musk is promoting.

I'm not complaining about the present - I'm complaining that the future with Tesla doesn't look good. And I'm not throwing them away, I wish Musk would take the reins again and tell us once again that the direction it looks like Tesla is going isn't where it's going.

And yes, I'm well aware that people who are Tesla stockholders want me to shut up, because Tesla pushing toward $70k minimum for its cars is going to help those people rake it in with such high margins. And maybe they like preserving the exclusivity of the brand. So those people will always say that's just what a Tesla costs, this is what's good for Tesla, and if some of us can't afford it (or Tesla stock), too bad. Because "EV's for all" isn't good for their long-term stock price, and exclusivity and ultra-luxury pricing is, and I understand that. But it's also not the future that Elon Musk and Tesla promised us, and that's what I complain about.

 

[sonoswen]

Apparently you’re either 100% in or you’re not

No, it's a gray area, like some many other issues.

 

[sonoswen]

"Elon Is Not My Space Dad!" not a bad one,,,may do it.