Look at this guy 😎

 

Full Self-Driving Capability Subscriptions | Tesla Support

If you have not already purchased FSD capability and your vehicle has FSD computer 3.0 or above, you can subscribe to FSD capability from the Tesla app. Learn more about FSD capability subscription.

www.tesla.com

 

And I had posted in another thread about the $1500 HW3 upgrade price if you are AP2 or AP2.5.

Just saw this on Twitter, one of the puzzle pieces on what they will do for AP2 and AP2.5 cars that want the FSD subscription and need the HW3 computer: $1500.

View attachment 39245

@DocScott, thought you might be interested to see this.

 

Does this mean people are being offered this before those of us who paid for it years ago can use it?

Edit: Oh, I see. What they get, now, is what I have now. I missed the "Coming Soon".

 

Yes, they get precisely the same nothing burger we bought years ago. The current subscriptions should be very, very low. In fact, I'm not sure anyone should subscribe now. What current feature is worth $200? Maybe auto lane change if you are heading out for a month-long road trip.
Anyway, this is certainly a smarter option than $10K upfront for FSD. Just wait to subscribe until there's a feature worth subscribing to.

 

The ask for FSD is too high IMHO. It's just not worth the money given there's no way to recoup your cost given the lack of a robotaxi fleet. Nobody other than a few chosen few can actually use FSD.

I proposed a better plan but so far Tesla seems to fell it's all or nothing.

https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/full-self-driving-and-autopilot-names.17509/#post-301769

 

I think $199/month is excessive, but it is consistent with Tesla’s add-on pricing philosophy, that if people are willing to pay x, they’re willing to pay ~50% more. Previous example would be the Autopilot sale, when people asked on Twitter for it to be reduced to $1500, and it ended up at $2000.

The question I have is how quickly can you activate it and cancel it? Are you required to carry it for a certain number if months? Do they make it one checkbox easy to subscribe, but to cancel you have to call Tesla and jump through hoops to discourage it?

Because it might be more interesting if, for example, you can enable it just for a vacation roadtrip to make the driving easier, but then disable it for back to normal commute days.

 

Looks like you can easily subscribe one month, cancel the next, and subscribe again on the 3rd month if you want. No refunds. When you cancel it will be active till the end of your billing period.

Full Self-Driving Capability Subscriptions | Tesla Support

If you have not already purchased FSD capability and your vehicle has FSD computer 3.0 or above, you can subscribe to FSD capability from the Tesla app. Learn more about FSD capability subscription.

www.tesla.com

From the Tesla site.

Subscription Pricing
Your vehicle's current Autopilot package of Basic Autopilot or Enhanced Autopilot will determine the FSD capability subscription price.

Basic Autopilot to FSD capability	$199.00 per month
Enhanced Autopilot to FSD capability	$99.00 per month

* Enhanced Autopilot (EAP) is only available in select markets.

To subscribe, open the 'Upgrades' menu in your Tesla app or sign in to your Tesla Account. If you have multiple vehicles associated with your account, please be sure to select and subscribe to the correct vehicle.

You can cancel your subscription at any time through the Tesla app or your Tesla Account. Monthly subscription payments will not be prorated. After your cancellation is processed, you will continue to have FSD capability features for the remainder of the current billing period.

 

I have EAP now, if I upgrade my computer to hardware 3 for $1,000 will I get improved visualization and software updates that I would not get with hardware 2.5?

 

As I noted above I suspected $199/month all along. If you want FSD then your best play is to get it up front for $10,000 and roll that into financing for the following reasons:

(1) You cap the spend. The subscription can and likely will go up and you’re month to month so nothing you can do to stop it. In a 5 year loan you’ll be $166.67 + interest and then $0/month thereafter.

(2) It’s flat out cheaper — $199/month for 5 years is $11,940 and at the end you have no residual value.

Now all of that said you have to value the functionality for the price. I had FSD on my first Model 3 mostly because of FOMO (I was making YouTube videos at the time) and pressure of price increases coming.

On my new Model 3 I decided not to light money on fire. I am beyond happy with AP. It does 95% of my driving (if I want it to — note I still enjoy driving myself as well). So value prop time… is $166.67 (or $199) per month worth 5% of my driving. The answer is unequivocally hell no when I get 95% for free.

YMMV as this is just my driving patterns and my needs.

On the flip side I realize some will value adding FSD for $200 and using it on a road trip. Sure, you can do that. Again AP probably handles 95% of your needs on that road trip. We are nowhere near the “take a nap in your backseat FSD” that would take road trips to the next level.

 

We are nowhere near the "take a nap in your backseat FSD" that would take road trips to the next level.

Telling that you chose the word "would", not "will".

 

Why do we need an "official" thread about this (with a misspelled subject) when there's an already existing thread about the same thing? Use Garsh's thread, put the "official" title on that.

 

My thread was about the announcement that FSD subscriptions would be coming in the future.
This thread is about the actual released feature.
It's fine.

Thanks for pointing out the misspelling in the title. Fixed.

 

It's great that they finally added a sub. The only part of FSD that I find useful today is the "signal for lane change". Everything else on my almost 3 year old FSD model 3 is a half baked party trick.

I predict lots of people get it for a month, realize they could lease another car (a Kia forte or similar) for the convenience of not manually changing lanes, and cancel.

Wake me up when Tesla have a public build of FSD that is at level 4, and I'll add it to my model Y. And promptly take a nap in the back seat on the highway.

 

I predict lots of people get it for a month, realize they could lease another car (a Kia forte or similar) for the convenience of not manually changing lanes, and cancel.

Now that you bring that up (and @SoFlaModel3 too, about the price of financing it being cheaper), I'm thinking the real perk of the $199 subscription price is intended to be portability for cash buyers - so people that can afford to pay cash for their car and trade them in frequently don't have to pay for FSD each time. Those people will actually save some money by subscribing.

You know who else would save big by subscribing once FSD actually self drives? Individuals or companies who will buy fleets of Teslas to operate a taxi service. They won't want to keep them around longer than a year or two, like rental car companies, and this means they can buy the cars for their fleet much cheaper.

Making it available for temporary use is probably just a side effect - if it's not part lf the main intention though, I would expect Tesla to close that hole (possibly by making it a 3 month minimum).

What I would like them to do - but they probably won't - is break out each feature ala carte, so if you don't need or care about summon and auto park, and FSD isn't complete, you can just add Navigate on Autopilot/Auto Lane Change.

 

How about that $99/mo EAP to FSD option?

I’m just imagining some poor soul who doesn’t follow this stuff closely going out and spending $1500 for the FSD computer plus $99/mo, only to discover that all they’ve added is automatic stopping at all traffic lights, red, yellow, or green.

 

I'm just imagining some poor soul who doesn't follow this stuff closely going out and spending $1500 for the FSD computer plus $99/mo, only to discover that all they've added is automatic stopping at all traffic lights, red, yellow, or green.

To be fair, they never said what traffic light color would cause the car to stop. And I guess that's marginally better than running all of the lights regardless of color.

 

I don't see how people could be confused about FSD - obviously FSD isn't the same as FSD. Likewise with EAP.

 

Ahh, sarcasm.

<grin>

 

Amid obvious pushback, Tesla has already dropped the price for FSD subscribers that need the HW3 upgrade from $1500 to $1000. Anyone they paid $1500 will get a $500 refund.

 

I know I am likely dreaming, but does anyone know if one were to pay the $1,000 to upgrade to the HW3 computer, then later on decided to purchase FSD, would that $1,000 be deducted from the FSD price?

 

I did just chat with Tesla and they are claiming that the price of the upgrade will be subtracted from the FSD cost if you purchase. I asked the poor lady a few times just to be 110% sure, and she said for me after HW3 is installed my FSD purchase price will be $4,000 (I have EAP). I don't want to be the first to try and see if she is correct, but if this is confirmed I will upgrade my hardware ASAP

 

3.10.14 App has Upgrades page that has Buy and Subscribe tabs.

My car is a Model 3 with Hardware 2.5 and existing Enhanced Autopilot.

My buy price for FSD is $5k and the Subscribe option includes a $1k hardware fee for the new computer, plus (not shown) subscription pricing.

I'm sure this has been covered extensively elsewhere, but does anyone know what the FSD subscription price is going to be, whether it can be purchased per trip, per month, etc.? Is there an existing thread for that here?

(I assume there is, but would appreciate a link. I'm not on here too often lately. Thanks in advance.)

 

I'm sure this has been covered extensively elsewhere, but does anyone know what the FSD subscription price is going to be, whether it can be purchased per trip, per month, etc.? Is there an existing thread for that here?

(I assume there is, but would appreciate a link. I'm not on here too often lately. Thanks in advance.)

I've moved your post to the FSD subscription thread.

 

Just curious: Can HW3 be installed by mobile service or will it need to be done at the local SC? What does it entails? ripping the darn dash and center console open to get to the computer?

 

The vast majority were done at the SC, however they did get to the point they could do them in the field. I never watched one, but I think they just taught the technicians to be contortionists to get where they need to be. I'm sure the glove box comes out, but then it is fairly accessible once that is out.

 

I just pulled the trigger on requesting the hardware upgrade from 2.5 to 3.0 for my 2018 M3.

A few observations:

• Neither the app nor the browser worked quite the way it should. Requesting a subscription told me I needed a hardware upgrade, and then gave me a button to push to request the hardware upgrade, but the button didn't work. Instead, I had to request a service appointment, and then choose upgrade FSD hardware as the reason.
• The app gave me a SC appointment. That doesn't mean mobile service couldn't do this for someone somewhere, but in my case they wanted me to bring it in. And since I recently got my tires rotated in my driveway, I know the mobile service in my area is able to do a lot.

Why am I getting the upgrade?

For one, I'd like to "future-proof" my car. For $1000, I'll be glad not to be in a small minority of M3s with the older computer. I feel like not upgrading is risking being in a neglected group somehow down the road.

I do wonder if AP will work better now with the new computer. The new FSD computer has been around for a couple of years now; it would be surprising if AP isn't taking advantage of it somehow. Once I get the upgrade, I'll try to keep an eye out to see if I notice any performance changes. If it shows up anywhere, it might show up with the visualization having an easier time picking up multiple objects--particularly pedestrians, cyclists, and parked cars on the shoulder. It won't be a perfect experiment, because I'm sure they'll push a new firmware while they're at it, but it will still be worth monitoring.

 

I do wonder if AP will work better now with the new computer. The new FSD computer has been around for a couple of years now; it would be surprising if AP isn't taking advantage of it somehow. Once I get the upgrade, I'll try to keep an eye out to see if I notice any performance changes. If it shows up anywhere, it might show up with the visualization having an easier time picking up multiple objects--particularly pedestrians, cyclists, and parked cars on the shoulder. It won't be a perfect experiment, because I'm sure they'll push a new firmware while they're at it, but it will still be worth monitoring.

My FSD driving experience has changed negligibly since I got HW3 about 1 1/2 years ago. So I seriously doubt you'll notice a serious difference with AP. However, you might have a valid point regarding future-proofing.

 

So give the hardware upgrade for free and charge $11K for FSD...

 

Some minimal improvements, yes. But both before and after HW3 upgrade. I haven't seen any improvements that would lead me to say "Glad I got that HW3 upgrade". Yet.

 

Do you have EAP? Did the new HW 3 help with the phantom braking on the highway?

 

I called Tesla, and the rep I talked to also confirmed that the $1,000 would be removed from my FSD, so I have a 9:00 appointment Monday to get it installed. I have a few places where NoA always screws up, and will be sure to test those asap and see what if any improvement I see.

 

I look forward to hearing if you notice a positive change.

 

I'm not really expecting HW3 to help AP with specific trouble spots, although I would be happy to be pleasantly surprised! HW3 is about processing the visual information faster, so if there's going to be a difference, I expect it to be with processing lots of stuff at once. That's why I'm going to focus on whether it seems to be better at picking up pedestrians, bicyclists, parked cars on the shoulder, etc..

 

I certainly can't blame you! I believe that my phantom braking is more frequent now than it has ever been(over 84K miles), but probably not as severe. But, heh, my windshield wipers work better, so who's complaining

 

So HW3 could provide a different response just because it is faster, but I see it more likely to be this very thing…. Does HW3 cause different branches of the same code to be executed? My brother with an 8 year old Tesla sometimes has the same software version number as I do, but there is much difference in what it does for his car vs mine.

BTW I don't put any significance to my single observation of an improvement. Although it was independently noticed by my spouse, there are definitely other explanations. Perhaps the cameras were recalibrated while at the SC, for example.

Welcome to the forum. No, at this time you should not expect to see any changes or improvements with HW3 compared to HW2.5 with EAP. It is a point of discussion whether it will make a difference in the future outside of FSD.

Well, HW3 is different logic hardware than HW2.5. (HW3 uses Tesla's own neural network chips. HW2.5 uses Nvidia chips for NN.) They almost certainly can't physically run the same code as each other, though I suppose Tesla could design some abstraction layers above hardware to make some of the driving code relatively platform independent, at the cost of a little performance.

Keep in mind that the Tesla NN chips are MUCH more powerful than Nvidia (which seem more than adequate for highway lane keeping, TACC, etc.). Their performance capabilities in principle are very different. It's also possible that only some aspects of FSD can take advantage of the more powerful HW3.

Probably only Tesla knows for sure.

Trying to discern improvements and changes in behavior from the outside, due to either software or hardware changes, with many variables of real world environments changed between automated driving experiences seems like it would be very difficult to do scientifically. Again, it seems likely that only Tesla would really know.

 

You're probably right on the abstraction or maybe it's more like a different driver but my guess is so far they have been running the same neural nets. The budgets are very different so HW3 can either run the same NN at a faster rate or run more/larger ones. But running faster isn't automatically better and could cause new problems so they probably run HW3 at the same rate as HW2.5. Ultimately with HW3 the plan is to switch to a new architecture based on merging all the cameras into one input to the net. Its safe to say they can't just run the new NN on HW2.5 at a reasonable frame rate but that's FSD Beta which hasn't come to the masses yet. Even in the beta testers version of FSD Beta, NOA reverts back to the old code, but they say that will change soon.

 

Dumb question, almost certainly already answered somewhere: I have a 2018 Model 3 with EAP. If I buy the FSD susbscription upgrade, but don't purchase the FSD subscription for a given month, does my car fall back to EAP?

As a reminder, EAP has NOA, Auto Lane Change, Autopark, Summon (though possibly less capable versions of them than FSD), so in principle all that FSD adds to EAP is traffic light and stop sign control, and maybe someday Autosteer on City Streets.

Do I have this right? Would an EAP car fall back to simply losing traffic light and stop sign control and someday Autosteer on City Streets? Or do I fall back to Basic Autopilot (highway lane keeping and TACC). I'm assuming the answer is not on the latter and that I should retain all EAP features if I don't happen to pay for the FSD subscription for a given month.

Anyone know for sure? Any references from Tesla to confirm?

Sort of related question: is there any evidence that EAP is more capable on HW3 than HW2.5?

(Basically I'm weighing whether to get the $1000 HW3 upgrade in general.)

 

does my car fall back to EAP?

It has to. You bought EAP. I'm not sure where the idea comes from that Tesla might take away something you purchased?