[JasonF]

My dealer just emailed me and they got their first ever Q4 e-tron and it is somehow available. That can only mean someone bailed on their order or no one wanted it.

I just read an article that this is happening with increasing frequency lately. Someone thought when they ordered that they'd have more money for a car payment than they actually do, or they ordered before inflation started squeezing their budget, and by the time the car arrives they say never mind, I can't afford it after all.

If that is the case, possibly it's evidence that maybe people aren't feeling the "I have to get it now before they're all gone" urgency so much about cars anymore.

 

[SoFlaModel3]

You’re killing me…did the wife go for the Q4?

She thought it would be exciting to have a unicorn car, but she only likes white cars and before you ask, no I’m not giving up my white e-tron!

I just read an article that this is happening with increasing frequency lately. Someone thought when they ordered that they'd have more money for a car payment than they actually do, or they ordered before inflation started squeezing their budget, and by the time the car arrives they say never mind, I can't afford it after all.

If that is the case, possibly it's evidence that maybe people aren't feeling the "I have to get it now before they're all gone" urgency so much about cars anymore.

This is not exclusive to cars. People are also walking away from home purchase contracts. That’s why I wonder if Tesla is actually recession proof. I don’t believe anything “premium” is immune. Also curious about iPhone 14 launching in a month.

 

[JasonF]

This is not exclusive to cars. People are also walking away from home purchase contracts. That’s why I wonder if Tesla is actually recession proof. I don’t believe anything “premium” is immune. Also curious about iPhone 14 launching in a month.

I've seen people walk away from house purchase contracts just in this neighborhood, multiple times. But from what I've seen, most of the time that has to do with the loan provider appraisal coming in below the agreed price, and then the purchaser being unable to come up with the difference.

Phones are a little different because they're almost consumables. People break them all the time, the cost of screen repair gets too high, and then need a replacement whether they're ready to buy one or not.

 

[happ2behere]

Well written comparison, and I couldn't agree more with so many of your sentiments. When the Model Y came out, I have briefly flirted with the idea of upgrading from my 2018 P3D+ built in the tent. But while I was getting some work done on my car, I saw the ENTIRE service center full from wall to wall with Model Ys getting beaten on with hammers, laptops diagnosing issues, door hinges being realigned. I mean, imagine everything a service center can do to a vehicle and they were doing it all. And it wasn't like this was the first month or two of deliveries happening. So I figured I'd wait. Then they had all of the heat pump problems here in Northeast US and Canada, and I figured no way would I risk that, so I waited some more. Then they had phantom braking issues, missing component issues, on and on the problems went so I never upgraded my P3D+.

Recently my drive unit failed, almost certainly because of firmware issues. I was lucky enough to get a loaner that is obviously a returned lease vehicle- A 2019 Model 3 LR. I absolutely can not believe the quality of the 2019 vehicle compared to my 2018. They're like two different cars made by two different companies. The 2019 has an uncountable number of rattles and squeaks, the suspension squeaks on both sides, the ride is unbelievably loud on these 18" wheel/tire set compared to the 20" I have. I knew quality was an issue, but I am stunned every time I get into this loaner at how quickly it dropped off a cliff.

To Trevor's point, yes. If Tesla upped their game on build quality, service centers, customer support services, software stability, UI design, interior design, and so on, they could compete with these other EVs. But Audi has been making the e-Tron since 2018 and it has only gotten better. It feels like Tesla is pinching pennies so much that they're guaranteeing a lot more one-and-done customer stories. That's the real shame, IMO. They've had so long to address all of these issues and they've done nothing but go the wrong direction.

Great review. You must have taken much time to organize this report. Kudos.
We bought our M3 LR AWD two years ago this month. It currently has 15K miles.
Up until this week we have had no issues with the car. It has been great. The hood does not appear to have been painted when the car was assembled, It is off color. NBD.
Well, trouble has begun. The car will no longer charge at home, a regular charger, even at a super charger.
We have an appointment next week in Albany. Fortunately for us, Tesla will be sending a flat bed and copping the bill.
Meanwhile what do we do for a car? No loaners?? How long to fix the car? Will they deliver it back?
Issues to be resolved. Thanks for all of the + input on our issue.
This article has got me thinking about the Audi

 

[JasonF]

Well, trouble has begun. The car will no longer charge at home, a regular charger, even at a super charger.

That actually sounds like a charge port issue. Usually those are easier to do than the on board chargers, but with the parts issues, who knows.

 

[SoFlaModel3]

Judging by the amount of people picking up new Teslas on this past Saturday when I got my Y they are still selling a lot of cars! Even with all these new EVs on the market now. It was a completely different experiance then when I got my 3 in 2018. I was the only one there taking delivery back then. But on Saturday, it was actually kind of annoying. The staff seemed stressed out and there was about 10 people waiting for new cars.

Similar for me. Delivery of my 2018 was personal. It was the only one in the morning that day. Delivery of my 2022 (and 2021 for that matter) was 1 of ~100. It was so rushed the expectation was I would finish all of the paperwork without even seeing my car first. Of course Tesla experiences dictate you better see the car first given it will likely have some kind of issue you have to make a decision about. Discovered an issue literally 2 minutes later and my delivery specialist was already delivering a car to the next “number”.

Perhaps that is the intent. But in practice? Let’s see. Every EV appears pre-sold before it hits the stealerships and that’s certainly the case for Tesla. Additional dealer markups is the norm for many models. Waitlists and wait times are measured in months and in some cases years. Rebates to consumers has encouraged manufacturers to raise prices. And consumers faced with all that still want to buy.

So again, that incentivizes manufacturers how?

I can get an EV6, ID.4, IONIQ 5, and F-150 Lightning right now. Each of those are on the lot at my nearest dealership. Each also probably has 5+ dealerships within a reasonable drive. Might not be the trim, color, or options set the way I’d want them, but that said they’re all available. Want an EV today, you can get an EV today. Want a specific spec, prepare to wait (but same goes for literally every car right now).

 

[SoFlaModel3]

I ended up turning this into a YouTube video

 

[bwilson4web]

Ok, so I took a look:

Here are the Tesla Model 3:

Everyone has a right to their requirements. The Tesla Model 3 still meets mine and the Audi, not so much.

Bob Wilson

 

[$ Trillion Musk]

Great review. This gives me hope that German best practices are already making its way into Tesla manufacturing by their presence in Berlin.

While I’m a fan of Teslas, they could use improvement in quality, design, fit and finish - you know, that wow factor - that we find in German brands. Combine these with a Tesla powertrain and it will be my dream car.

 

[SoFlaModel3]

Ok, so I took a look:
View attachment 44723

Here are the Tesla Model 3:
View attachment 44725

Everyone has a right to their requirements. The Tesla Model 3 still meets mine and the Audi, not so much.

Bob Wilson

Absolutely… choices, more and more choices and we all win.

Curious though, what are you showing with the graphics? The efficiency, price, something else?

A few thoughts … (1) the car I got is an e-tron. Not an “S” or a “Sportback” and on the Tesla side the prices are way off and the efficiency isn’t close to real world.

Interestingly enough I just went on the Tesla site and you can order a base Model 3 or a Performance Model 3, but the long range is grayed out.

Last thought — I say don’t knock it until you try it. Not saying this is your line of thinking but I hear so many people say “it’s great there are other EVs but they are all so far behind Tesla”. Those same people generally haven’t even bothered to test drive one. All I can say is that my eyes have been opened. Every (or at least almost every) EV on the market today basically covers the daily commute of 98% of Americans with simple overnight charging. It’s go time. Viable EVs are everywhere. Pick your favorite brand!

 

[SoFlaModel3]

One more thought for comparison sake, it really isn’t fair to compare e-tron to Model 3, but that’s all I have known for 4.5 years.

If we compare my e-tron to a Model Y Long Range.

Model Y is $66k base + $2k for 20” wheels so $68k. It has 318 miles of rated range.

If my Model 3 gets ~260 miles on a road trip (rated at 350), then I’d guess the Model Y gets 237.

Now for the e-tron. $77k for Premium Plus. -$7500 federal EV credit so $69.5k.

Rated range is 222 miles but real world on a road trip it will get 235-245 miles.

Long story short, but those basic numbers the 2 cars are dead equal.

 

[tencate]

@SoFlaModel3 how's the insurance rates on the Audi? My Model 3 rates are still pretty high, likely because the car hasn't really lost much of its value to date. Insurance costs have hurt me the most I think.

 

[bwilson4web]

what are you showing with the graphics? The efficiency,

The efficiency, kWh/100 miles, because travel is not free. The cheapest miles work best for this retired engineer. But I respect some may have other priorities.

Here are the 2022 Model 3 and the last one is my personal, 2019 Model 3:

After 3.5 years, 78,581 miles, the 100% SOC range is down to 220 miles, -8.3% ~= (240-220) / 240. The Supercharger network expansion has matched and exceeded most of the battery degradation. Only the 204 mile, Huntsville-Memphis segment needs a L2, bridge charge in Corinth MS.

Should both L2 chargers be down, a 40 mile diversion to Tupelo MS bridges the gap. Furthermore, are several NEMA 14-50 options available. Recent addition of a Huntsville Supercharger might avoid the Corinth bridge charge.

Bob Wilson

 

[bwilson4web]

I consider operational cost the most important aspect of the 2022 and my 2019 Tesla Model 3:

• kWh/100 mi - my 3.5 year old, 78.581 Model 3 has 32 fewer miles range new yet same cost per 100 miles. This suggests the newer battery has more capacity, FYI, battery degradation to 220 miles, ~8.3%, is well within expectation.
• Cost to Drive - both are easily running $0.83 per 25 miles, $3.32/100 miles. The local cost of gasoline is $3.50/gallon.

The capital cost of a vehicle is a one-time charge. I just hate paying for the car over and over again just trying to use it.

Bob Wilson

 

[SoFlaModel3]

@SoFlaModel3 how's the insurance rates on the Audi? My Model 3 rates are still pretty high, likely because the car hasn't really lost much of its value to date. Insurance costs have hurt me the most I think.

My insurance went down $400 for 6 months which is mind boggling to me.

 

[SalisburySam]

I’m pleased I’ve not replaced my 06/2018-built M3 LR RWD vehicle; it still has advantages over today’s equivalent. But we’re in the one-and-done camp. We’ll keep it a few more years, assuming nothing catastrophically expensive happens to it as it is now out of the 4-year warranty. We’re looking for a 2nd vehicle and trying to buy an Ioniq5 Limited (no availability), an Audi Q4 e-tron (no availability), a FIsker Ocean (no availability), or the Cadillac Lyriq (no availability). Lots of great EVs coming but nothing here yet even if in production (the Hyundai). Lots of hope for 2023 though, maybe 2024. I think both Tesla and Nissan, each with a huge early-mover EV advantage, have lost their way. If anything, the winner might be Nissan in that they actually deliver (sort of, still hard to get) a low cost EV that hasn’t been recalled essentially off the market.

UPDATE: We took delivery on a 2023 Hyundai Ioniq5 Limited last week. We were 2nd on a dealer’s waitlist and #1 opted out. So I’m eating my words above about at least the Ioniq5’s availability, and we love the car.

 

[SoFlaModel3]

UPDATE: We took delivery on a 2023 Hyundai Ioniq5 Limited last week. We were 2nd on a dealer’s waitlist and #1 opted out. So I’m eating my words above about at least the Ioniq5’s availability, and we love the car.

Awesome, congrats! I have done a few recent road trips and saw many of them at the DC fast chargers. I really love the way the IONIQ 5 looks in person!!

 

[Nom]

@SoFlaModel3 - curious to hear an update. Good looking car. Hoping going well.

 

[Bad Dolphin]

Great article. Thank you!

@garsh asked me to do a 1 week review of the Audi e-tron so here it goes!

I was an early Tesla Model 3 owner with VIN 005950 (2018 Long Range Rear Wheel Drive). For a few months there it was rare to see a Model 3 and my car was a head turner. This was so early that the rear heated seats were still software locked with people trying to figure out if the hardware was even there. As time went on, Tesla had done enough hardware upgrades (powered trunk, new center console, and black trim) mixed with other improvements (better seat padding primarily, double pane glass) that I wanted a new one so I traded for a 2021 Long Range Dual Motor. That car was a dud. I call it a lemon, but technically speaking a car is only a lemon if it is safety related. The car was delivered with tons of defects (paint and fit) and then had a loose passenger seat and dash pieces that rattled non-stop. After 5 services it was still unresolved. Fortunately this was the point in time when used car prices started surging and I was able to flip the 2021 Long Range Dual Motor for a 2022 Long Range Dual Motor for a profit and get in before the new car prices increased. I got the white seats that weren’t available for low VINs. I downgraded to the 18s from the 19s because I didn’t like how they changed the 19s though that was my preferred move as the dark wheels fit better with the dark trim. Alright, so I’m happy now, right? No… third new Tesla delivered with paint issues. To their credit they fixed the paint quickly. However from there the car rattled a lot. The trunk rubbed the body of the car each time it closed and stripped paint as well. I just got fed up with the quality issues and inability to fix them. At this point I’ve had a Model 3 for 4.5 years and I’ve grown tired with some missing “normal car” things and it’s time to move on.

I find myself at a cross roads looking for a “sports car” and a ”luxury/comfort car”. I test drive the BMW i4 and like it enough to put a deposit on it. The waiting list is 1 year deep. The car drove great, but it seemed over complicated in some ways and I’m just not sure about the front end.

I test drove an Audi S4 (yes an ICE car). I fall in love with it. They don’t have the spec I want and so I’m relegated to a 2023. The fact that I couldn’t leave the dealership with it right there was fortunate as it gave me some time to realize no I definitely don’t want to pump gas.

Alright, so I love Audi and want an EV. What about the e-tron. I have a friend that is a former e-tron owner and speaks volumes about the car. I have never been an SUV fan, but I’m open to considering it. I have 5 dealerships in my local area so I check local inventories. Sure enough the closest dealer has 2 of them “on the lot” in the exact spec I want (glacier white, with black interior, premium plus trim). I called and they tell me unfortunately no e-trons are on the lot. I ask if they can double check the system since the site says on the lot. They check the first one… sold. Bummer. They check the second one… at the port! We’re in the business. I ask how I can secure the car, but note that I need to test drive before I’ll take it. They have me fill out a credit app, but tell me that they won’t run my credit unless I take the car. Then they send over a price sheet and have me sign off. After that the car will be marked “SOLD” upon arrival. 2 days later it leaves the port and 2 days after that it arrives. Dealer prep is thorough and takes a full day from charging to 100% to validate the pack is good to a full inspection and detailing the car. Needless to say having purchased 3 Teslas in a row with immediate issues needing service, it was a welcomed sight to see a flawless vehicle waiting for me.

Pros and cons of the Audi e-tron coming from the Tesla Model 3

1. Mobile Application - overall the Audi app does basically everything that the Tesla app can do. There are 3 areas where the Tesla app is superior: (1) Phone as a key, (2) Generally it loads faster, and (3) It works through Bluetooth in close proximity to the car. On the Audi side, it lets you program shortcuts for long press on the icon, so for instance I trigger climate control on long press which is nice. While it connects slightly slower, it’s a quick adjustment to time when to pop open the app to trigger climate control and a nice added benefit you can also turn on the air conditioned seats from the app! No SentryMode/TeslaCam equivalent in the Audi, so no view of the cameras in the app. It is certainly possible if they wanted to add it, but I don’t think they will.
2. Entering the car - the Audi greets with you dancing LED lights front and back then an animation on the dash and welcome sound. It may seem trivial, but it just feels nice.
3. Starting the car - the Audi has a start/stop button. That was an adjustment from just getting in and stepping on the brake. To be honest for the first day or 2 I struggled to tell if the car was on or off. Not as simple as it could be, but second nature just a few days later.
4. Virtual ****pit / Screens - The Audi Virtual ****pit is very cool. An all digital display behind the steering wheel that is highly customizable as far as style and content displayed. While I never minded having the single screen, I have now moved to a car with 3 screens and you realize what an advantage it is. Things simply do not have to be buried in menus because you have the room to see them. Maps can be in the virtual ****pit with music on one display and A/C controls on the other. Lots of options here.
5. Apple CarPlay (or Android Auto) - I used to take the stance that Tesla was a software company that happened to make cars and this was their competitive advantage. Over time, I found myself getting more and more frustrated as Tesla has a closed off system and you’re at their mercy as to whether or not they build that app you’re looking for. Apple CarPlay solves that. I love listening to audiobooks on Audible when I drive and obviously Tesla doesn’t have that app. CarPlay does. It’s seamless and easy. The Waze, Maps, Calendar, Spotify, Audible, iMessage and PlugShare functionality works so well. I’m also getting pop up notifications from Microsoft Teams and WhatsApp. One note here, the car comes with Wireless CarPlay. Personally I found that to be less stable. I have since disabled that and gone with hardwired CarPlay and it has been flawless.
6. 360 Camera/Rear Cross Traffic/Blind Spot Mirrors - this is something that Tesla is severely lacking. The Audi has an incredible 360 view including the ability to independently call up every camera angle around the car. I especially love this for pulling into my garage and getting as close as possible to the wall In front of the car without the fear of accidentally going to far. Rear Cross Traffic works exactly as it does in all other cars and what you expect. You get beeps and alerts as things approach from the sides. Finally, blind spot mirrors. No, having an indication on the center screen or a low quality live feed camera angle is not an acceptable solution. A simple little light in the mirror is all you need. I like how the Audi tucks the light into the mirror housing so it’s not on the glass. They’ve also tinted it so it’s not that bright at night. Works like a charm and again what you expect!
7. Red Light/Green Light Notification - I know Tesla just rolled out the Green Light Chime to non-FSD customers. That feature works well. As I approached a red light in the Audi for the first time, it popped up with a countdown. Yes that’s right, the car knows exactly how long the light is going to remain red and gives you an indication of how long you have to fumble around doing something before you’ll be on your way again. It also lets you know to maintain speed and the green light ahead will still be green when you get there. Incredible! I believe this feature is locked into an Audi Connect package that runs $30/month, so I am unlikely to keep it after the free trial ends. Still really neat though.
8. Autopilot - don’t get me started on FSD. Having wasted money on that false promise once, I wouldn’t make that mistake again so my last 2 Tesla’s had basic Autopilot. Generally speaking I had no complaints with Autopilot. The rare phantom braking heart attack always loomed but otherwise it did the job. If any complaint was warranted, they went vision only in June of 2021 and you had to acknowledge the step back before you could take delivery of the car. Don’t worry “parity was coming soon”. As of selling the car (13 months later), vision only still lagged behind the capability of the prior system. Moral of the story, never trust “soon” with Tesla (see also FSD, Cybertruck, and 2020 Roadster). How does the Audi stack up? Surprisingly very well. The car keeps the lane like a champ. It’s very easy to adjust speed and follow distance. Honestly, it’s the perfect road trip companion. It also has some cool (if you use Audi’s navigation) wherein you can remain in the system and it will slow for you at intersections and turns and then accelerate back up to speed. This is something I honestly will never use as I prefer the Apple CarPlay navigation.
9. Wipers/Windshield Washers - yes I made this it’s own category. In 4.5 years of Model 3 ownership it seemed Tesla could never quite figure out auto wipers. They either didn’t come on, came on full speed, or for the last year the big issue was choppy wiping skipping across the windshield. In the Audi, as you would expect, they just work. Easy access on a stalk not buried in a touch screen and again they just work. One thing of note, due to the aero design of the Model 3, any time you use washer fluid it ends up all over the driver’s window and side of the car. This doesn’t happen in the Audi as it is contained to the windshield.
10. Seats - I did the white seat experiment with Tesla. They are eye popping. I also think they’re more comfortable than the black seats, but maybe just because your brain is tricked into thinking they are big marshmallows. However, no matter what anyone says they stain and that’s a problem, because they are white and the stains are obvious. With the Audi I was happy to go back to black seats. I also find them to be more supportive and overall more comfortable. They are air conditioned, which I love in South Florida. The air conditioned seats are on 100% of the time for me and I’m happy to take the range hit. They do have optional massage seats, but they tucked those into the Chronos trim for 2022 and I didn’t want that trim (bigger rims / less range, etc). Sigh… I wanted the massage seats though!
11. Homelink - with the Audi you can store up to 8 doors/gates versus 3 with the Tesla. You also don’t have to make a service appointment to have it installed after delivery. They also match the experience of GPS aware suggestions. No auto open/close though. One thing of note with my Tesla is that it routinely failed to open and close the doors. This was both in automatic mode and manual mode. To date the Audi has worked every time.
12. Wind Noise/Road Noise - no way around this, the Tesla is bad at this. I had the double pane glass in my Model 3 and 18s. That did nothing. The reason why is because it’s mostly road noise, not wind noise. I think Tesla is missing insulation in the wheel wells (call it cost savings, weight savings, or both), but it’s a big miss. For comparison my wife’s 2018 Model 3 has 19s and no double pain glass and it’s equally as bad. As soon as you hit a bad patch of road you just wish that you are in any other car. The Audi is silent whether on bad roads or at highway speeds. I have missed having a quiet cabin!
13. Fit/Finish/Materials/Luxury - this is a bit of a catch all, but the quality of the materials does feel better to the touch in the Audi and overall it just feels better put together. I will say the Audi has an affinity for finger print magnet surfaces (gloss black) which Tesla gets kudos for moving away from that beginning in 2021. My cleaning cloth is always at the ready. One thing of note, with the Tesla you commonly see unpainted areas (or worse yet under painted areas) whereas with the Audi you just don’t see that.
14. Range - I put this pretty far down the list, but range (or lack there of) is often a knock on the e-tron and why people won’t consider non-Tesla EVs in general. What I can tell you so far is that Tesla dramatically overstates range versus what you can expect in the real world where the Audi approach (and seemingly all other OEMs) is to understate. Why is that? I have a few guesses at it: (1) Tesla only sells EVs and must convert you from an ICE car. You’ve heard “range is an issue” and thus they need the biggest number possible. If you stop and look at how the range estimates are established by the EPA you’ll find that it isn’t very “real world” and (2) the opposite of Tesla is that the OEMs can sell you ICE cars if you don’t want an EV so they don’t have to reach for the stars to get you there. There is also a sense of under promise, over deliver (the way it should be). Long story short, it is realistic that I can go on a road trip with my e-tron rated at 222 miles of range and get 230-240 miles. By comparison, I can go on a road trip with my 350 mile range Tesla Model 3 and get 260 miles. A shocking difference on “rated range” and a narrow difference on “real world range”. More importantly, see #15 next. One last thought here is that the Audi shows you what you can do to improve your range (more than just drive slowly) so for instance, turn off cooled seats for + 8 miles, etc. The Audi has no vampire drain whatsoever, which is nice. It also doesn’t have cabin overheat nor a Sentry Mode equivalent, so while you don’t have those features you also don’t have the range hit associated with those features which can be considerable.
15. Charging - on a road trip, more important than range (to some extent) can be charging. The e-tron charges at 150 kW, but because Audi puts a big buffer in the battery you can get peak charging speeds all the way up to 80% and it still holds a solid rate beyond 80% as well. That means it’s a completely different dynamic than a Tesla road trip. In other words you don’t drain it down to get high charging speeds at low state or charge. To be honest, I’m not sure one is better than the other. The big learning here is that both work well on road trips and Tesla isn’t the only EV highly capable of a road trip. For home and destination charging, the Audi has J1772 inputs on both sides of the car which adds some convenience and I found a Tesla to J1772 adapter so I can continue to use my Tesla Wall Charger at home and additionally can use Tesla destination chargers on the go!
16. Driving - I’ll end it here. No sense comparing an SUV to a sedan from a driving dynamics standpoint as they are just so different, so some thoughts here. Audi and Tesla has a different take on efficiency and regen. Again not to say one is better than the other, but it’s just different. The Tesla has one pedal driving if you like that and I did and got very used to driving with one pedal. The Audi will not be a true one pedal driver as you will eventually have to use the brake pedal to come to a complete stop. Personally I prefer one pedal. That said, the Audi has taken the paddle shifters from ICE cars and converted them to be manual regen paddles. Want to slow without the brakes, hit stage 1. Want to slow more without the brakes, hit stage 2. You can relax the regen with the other paddle or simply step on the accelerator to reset. Audi takes the stance that “coasting“ is more efficient. I suppose that does make sense given the size and weight of a big SUV so they want to conserve the momentum. The brake pedal does apply the brakes and regen at the same time. It’s an adjustment, but I’m already used to it. Another cool thing is driving modes. You can set the Audi from dynamic (lower ride height, stiffer suspension, tighter steering feel, and more response from the accelerator pedal) to comfort (raised ride height, pillow like suspension, soft steering feel, and less response from the accelerator pedal). There also an Efficiency mode, which I find myself using the most. This maximizes range, even adjusts the A/C which hasn’t seemed to stop the car from being freezing cold in the Florida heat.

Final thoughts - I absolutely love everything about the Audi. I have no regrets. My time with Tesla was special. I am however immensely happy that I was able to get a compelling EV that didn’t have to be made by Tesla. That’s ultimately the only way we move forward with EVs.

Fortunately used car values are insane right now and I got $58k for my Model 3 + 7% FL Sales Tax Trade-in Credit for a total of $62,060. I paid $58,195.98 out the door for it. Yes, that means I drove it for 8 months and made $3,864.02. Thanks supply chain issues! The Audi did not have any dealer markup or extra made up fees and does qualify for the $7,500 US Federal EV Tax Credit.

Biggest reasons for the change…. (1) better fit and finish, (2) silent cabin/luxury, (3) CarPlay, (4) no Elon, and (5) capitalize on short-term ridiculous used car values

Things I will miss the most… (1) one pedal driving, (2) phone as a key, (3) acceleration

Yes I need a new license plate and sigh it will probably take 2-3 months…

View attachment 44598

View attachment 44600

@garsh asked me to do a 1 week review of the Audi e-tron so here it goes!

I was an early Tesla Model 3 owner with VIN 005950 (2018 Long Range Rear Wheel Drive). For a few months there it was rare to see a Model 3 and my car was a head turner. This was so early that the rear heated seats were still software locked with people trying to figure out if the hardware was even there. As time went on, Tesla had done enough hardware upgrades (powered trunk, new center console, and black trim) mixed with other improvements (better seat padding primarily, double pane glass) that I wanted a new one so I traded for a 2021 Long Range Dual Motor. That car was a dud. I call it a lemon, but technically speaking a car is only a lemon if it is safety related. The car was delivered with tons of defects (paint and fit) and then had a loose passenger seat and dash pieces that rattled non-stop. After 5 services it was still unresolved. Fortunately this was the point in time when used car prices started surging and I was able to flip the 2021 Long Range Dual Motor for a 2022 Long Range Dual Motor for a profit and get in before the new car prices increased. I got the white seats that weren’t available for low VINs. I downgraded to the 18s from the 19s because I didn’t like how they changed the 19s though that was my preferred move as the dark wheels fit better with the dark trim. Alright, so I’m happy now, right? No… third new Tesla delivered with paint issues. To their credit they fixed the paint quickly. However from there the car rattled a lot. The trunk rubbed the body of the car each time it closed and stripped paint as well. I just got fed up with the quality issues and inability to fix them. At this point I’ve had a Model 3 for 4.5 years and I’ve grown tired with some missing “normal car” things and it’s time to move on.

I find myself at a cross roads looking for a “sports car” and a ”luxury/comfort car”. I test drive the BMW i4 and like it enough to put a deposit on it. The waiting list is 1 year deep. The car drove great, but it seemed over complicated in some ways and I’m just not sure about the front end.

I test drove an Audi S4 (yes an ICE car). I fall in love with it. They don’t have the spec I want and so I’m relegated to a 2023. The fact that I couldn’t leave the dealership with it right there was fortunate as it gave me some time to realize no I definitely don’t want to pump gas.

Alright, so I love Audi and want an EV. What about the e-tron. I have a friend that is a former e-tron owner and speaks volumes about the car. I have never been an SUV fan, but I’m open to considering it. I have 5 dealerships in my local area so I check local inventories. Sure enough the closest dealer has 2 of them “on the lot” in the exact spec I want (glacier white, with black interior, premium plus trim). I called and they tell me unfortunately no e-trons are on the lot. I ask if they can double check the system since the site says on the lot. They check the first one… sold. Bummer. They check the second one… at the port! We’re in the business. I ask how I can secure the car, but note that I need to test drive before I’ll take it. They have me fill out a credit app, but tell me that they won’t run my credit unless I take the car. Then they send over a price sheet and have me sign off. After that the car will be marked “SOLD” upon arrival. 2 days later it leaves the port and 2 days after that it arrives. Dealer prep is thorough and takes a full day from charging to 100% to validate the pack is good to a full inspection and detailing the car. Needless to say having purchased 3 Teslas in a row with immediate issues needing service, it was a welcomed sight to see a flawless vehicle waiting for me.

Pros and cons of the Audi e-tron coming from the Tesla Model 3

1. Mobile Application - overall the Audi app does basically everything that the Tesla app can do. There are 3 areas where the Tesla app is superior: (1) Phone as a key, (2) Generally it loads faster, and (3) It works through Bluetooth in close proximity to the car. On the Audi side, it lets you program shortcuts for long press on the icon, so for instance I trigger climate control on long press which is nice. While it connects slightly slower, it’s a quick adjustment to time when to pop open the app to trigger climate control and a nice added benefit you can also turn on the air conditioned seats from the app! No SentryMode/TeslaCam equivalent in the Audi, so no view of the cameras in the app. It is certainly possible if they wanted to add it, but I don’t think they will.
2. Entering the car - the Audi greets with you dancing LED lights front and back then an animation on the dash and welcome sound. It may seem trivial, but it just feels nice.
3. Starting the car - the Audi has a start/stop button. That was an adjustment from just getting in and stepping on the brake. To be honest for the first day or 2 I struggled to tell if the car was on or off. Not as simple as it could be, but second nature just a few days later.
4. Virtual ****pit / Screens - The Audi Virtual ****pit is very cool. An all digital display behind the steering wheel that is highly customizable as far as style and content displayed. While I never minded having the single screen, I have now moved to a car with 3 screens and you realize what an advantage it is. Things simply do not have to be buried in menus because you have the room to see them. Maps can be in the virtual ****pit with music on one display and A/C controls on the other. Lots of options here.
5. Apple CarPlay (or Android Auto) - I used to take the stance that Tesla was a software company that happened to make cars and this was their competitive advantage. Over time, I found myself getting more and more frustrated as Tesla has a closed off system and you’re at their mercy as to whether or not they build that app you’re looking for. Apple CarPlay solves that. I love listening to audiobooks on Audible when I drive and obviously Tesla doesn’t have that app. CarPlay does. It’s seamless and easy. The Waze, Maps, Calendar, Spotify, Audible, iMessage and PlugShare functionality works so well. I’m also getting pop up notifications from Microsoft Teams and WhatsApp. One note here, the car comes with Wireless CarPlay. Personally I found that to be less stable. I have since disabled that and gone with hardwired CarPlay and it has been flawless.
6. 360 Camera/Rear Cross Traffic/Blind Spot Mirrors - this is something that Tesla is severely lacking. The Audi has an incredible 360 view including the ability to independently call up every camera angle around the car. I especially love this for pulling into my garage and getting as close as possible to the wall In front of the car without the fear of accidentally going to far. Rear Cross Traffic works exactly as it does in all other cars and what you expect. You get beeps and alerts as things approach from the sides. Finally, blind spot mirrors. No, having an indication on the center screen or a low quality live feed camera angle is not an acceptable solution. A simple little light in the mirror is all you need. I like how the Audi tucks the light into the mirror housing so it’s not on the glass. They’ve also tinted it so it’s not that bright at night. Works like a charm and again what you expect!
7. Red Light/Green Light Notification - I know Tesla just rolled out the Green Light Chime to non-FSD customers. That feature works well. As I approached a red light in the Audi for the first time, it popped up with a countdown. Yes that’s right, the car knows exactly how long the light is going to remain red and gives you an indication of how long you have to fumble around doing something before you’ll be on your way again. It also lets you know to maintain speed and the green light ahead will still be green when you get there. Incredible! I believe this feature is locked into an Audi Connect package that runs $30/month, so I am unlikely to keep it after the free trial ends. Still really neat though.
8. Autopilot - don’t get me started on FSD. Having wasted money on that false promise once, I wouldn’t make that mistake again so my last 2 Tesla’s had basic Autopilot. Generally speaking I had no complaints with Autopilot. The rare phantom braking heart attack always loomed but otherwise it did the job. If any complaint was warranted, they went vision only in June of 2021 and you had to acknowledge the step back before you could take delivery of the car. Don’t worry “parity was coming soon”. As of selling the car (13 months later), vision only still lagged behind the capability of the prior system. Moral of the story, never trust “soon” with Tesla (see also FSD, Cybertruck, and 2020 Roadster). How does the Audi stack up? Surprisingly very well. The car keeps the lane like a champ. It’s very easy to adjust speed and follow distance. Honestly, it’s the perfect road trip companion. It also has some cool (if you use Audi’s navigation) wherein you can remain in the system and it will slow for you at intersections and turns and then accelerate back up to speed. This is something I honestly will never use as I prefer the Apple CarPlay navigation.
9. Wipers/Windshield Washers - yes I made this it’s own category. In 4.5 years of Model 3 ownership it seemed Tesla could never quite figure out auto wipers. They either didn’t come on, came on full speed, or for the last year the big issue was choppy wiping skipping across the windshield. In the Audi, as you would expect, they just work. Easy access on a stalk not buried in a touch screen and again they just work. One thing of note, due to the aero design of the Model 3, any time you use washer fluid it ends up all over the driver’s window and side of the car. This doesn’t happen in the Audi as it is contained to the windshield.
10. Seats - I did the white seat experiment with Tesla. They are eye popping. I also think they’re more comfortable than the black seats, but maybe just because your brain is tricked into thinking they are big marshmallows. However, no matter what anyone says they stain and that’s a problem, because they are white and the stains are obvious. With the Audi I was happy to go back to black seats. I also find them to be more supportive and overall more comfortable. They are air conditioned, which I love in South Florida. The air conditioned seats are on 100% of the time for me and I’m happy to take the range hit. They do have optional massage seats, but they tucked those into the Chronos trim for 2022 and I didn’t want that trim (bigger rims / less range, etc). Sigh… I wanted the massage seats though!
11. Homelink - with the Audi you can store up to 8 doors/gates versus 3 with the Tesla. You also don’t have to make a service appointment to have it installed after delivery. They also match the experience of GPS aware suggestions. No auto open/close though. One thing of note with my Tesla is that it routinely failed to open and close the doors. This was both in automatic mode and manual mode. To date the Audi has worked every time.
12. Wind Noise/Road Noise - no way around this, the Tesla is bad at this. I had the double pane glass in my Model 3 and 18s. That did nothing. The reason why is because it’s mostly road noise, not wind noise. I think Tesla is missing insulation in the wheel wells (call it cost savings, weight savings, or both), but it’s a big miss. For comparison my wife’s 2018 Model 3 has 19s and no double pain glass and it’s equally as bad. As soon as you hit a bad patch of road you just wish that you are in any other car. The Audi is silent whether on bad roads or at highway speeds. I have missed having a quiet cabin!
13. Fit/Finish/Materials/Luxury - this is a bit of a catch all, but the quality of the materials does feel better to the touch in the Audi and overall it just feels better put together. I will say the Audi has an affinity for finger print magnet surfaces (gloss black) which Tesla gets kudos for moving away from that beginning in 2021. My cleaning cloth is always at the ready. One thing of note, with the Tesla you commonly see unpainted areas (or worse yet under painted areas) whereas with the Audi you just don’t see that.
14. Range - I put this pretty far down the list, but range (or lack there of) is often a knock on the e-tron and why people won’t consider non-Tesla EVs in general. What I can tell you so far is that Tesla dramatically overstates range versus what you can expect in the real world where the Audi approach (and seemingly all other OEMs) is to understate. Why is that? I have a few guesses at it: (1) Tesla only sells EVs and must convert you from an ICE car. You’ve heard “range is an issue” and thus they need the biggest number possible. If you stop and look at how the range estimates are established by the EPA you’ll find that it isn’t very “real world” and (2) the opposite of Tesla is that the OEMs can sell you ICE cars if you don’t want an EV so they don’t have to reach for the stars to get you there. There is also a sense of under promise, over deliver (the way it should be). Long story short, it is realistic that I can go on a road trip with my e-tron rated at 222 miles of range and get 230-240 miles. By comparison, I can go on a road trip with my 350 mile range Tesla Model 3 and get 260 miles. A shocking difference on “rated range” and a narrow difference on “real world range”. More importantly, see #15 next. One last thought here is that the Audi shows you what you can do to improve your range (more than just drive slowly) so for instance, turn off cooled seats for + 8 miles, etc. The Audi has no vampire drain whatsoever, which is nice. It also doesn’t have cabin overheat nor a Sentry Mode equivalent, so while you don’t have those features you also don’t have the range hit associated with those features which can be considerable.
15. Charging - on a road trip, more important than range (to some extent) can be charging. The e-tron charges at 150 kW, but because Audi puts a big buffer in the battery you can get peak charging speeds all the way up to 80% and it still holds a solid rate beyond 80% as well. That means it’s a completely different dynamic than a Tesla road trip. In other words you don’t drain it down to get high charging speeds at low state or charge. To be honest, I’m not sure one is better than the other. The big learning here is that both work well on road trips and Tesla isn’t the only EV highly capable of a road trip. For home and destination charging, the Audi has J1772 inputs on both sides of the car which adds some convenience and I found a Tesla to J1772 adapter so I can continue to use my Tesla Wall Charger at home and additionally can use Tesla destination chargers on the go!
16. Driving - I’ll end it here. No sense comparing an SUV to a sedan from a driving dynamics standpoint as they are just so different, so some thoughts here. Audi and Tesla has a different take on efficiency and regen. Again not to say one is better than the other, but it’s just different. The Tesla has one pedal driving if you like that and I did and got very used to driving with one pedal. The Audi will not be a true one pedal driver as you will eventually have to use the brake pedal to come to a complete stop. Personally I prefer one pedal. That said, the Audi has taken the paddle shifters from ICE cars and converted them to be manual regen paddles. Want to slow without the brakes, hit stage 1. Want to slow more without the brakes, hit stage 2. You can relax the regen with the other paddle or simply step on the accelerator to reset. Audi takes the stance that “coasting“ is more efficient. I suppose that does make sense given the size and weight of a big SUV so they want to conserve the momentum. The brake pedal does apply the brakes and regen at the same time. It’s an adjustment, but I’m already used to it. Another cool thing is driving modes. You can set the Audi from dynamic (lower ride height, stiffer suspension, tighter steering feel, and more response from the accelerator pedal) to comfort (raised ride height, pillow like suspension, soft steering feel, and less response from the accelerator pedal). There also an Efficiency mode, which I find myself using the most. This maximizes range, even adjusts the A/C which hasn’t seemed to stop the car from being freezing cold in the Florida heat.

Final thoughts - I absolutely love everything about the Audi. I have no regrets. My time with Tesla was special. I am however immensely happy that I was able to get a compelling EV that didn’t have to be made by Tesla. That’s ultimately the only way we move forward with EVs.

Fortunately used car values are insane right now and I got $58k for my Model 3 + 7% FL Sales Tax Trade-in Credit for a total of $62,060. I paid $58,195.98 out the door for it. Yes, that means I drove it for 8 months and made $3,864.02. Thanks supply chain issues! The Audi did not have any dealer markup or extra made up fees and does qualify for the $7,500 US Federal EV Tax Credit.

Biggest reasons for the change…. (1) better fit and finish, (2) silent cabin/luxury, (3) CarPlay, (4) no Elon, and (5) capitalize on short-term ridiculous used car values

Things I will miss the most… (1) one pedal driving, (2) phone as a key, (3) acceleration

Yes I need a new license plate and sigh it will probably take 2-3 months…

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Great article. Thank you!

We LOVE our 2018 M3LR. All the feedback on the more recent builds is quite scary. And fundamentallyC we need good non-Tesla alternatives to keep the market competitive.

Because we live in Hawaii, charging stations are not an issue as everywhere is within range of our home charger. Road noise is acceptable, and I agree that it is not wind noise. We love one pedal driving, and phone keys fir the family are really nice, too. Those are important to us now that we’ve been spoiled.

So how are we going to replace our car in the next couple of years?!!! Doesn’t make sense to wait for battery to fail and pay for a new one. Especially because we have to ship from Maui to Honolulu and back ti have that service done. By the way, the remote ranger service here on Maui is EXCELLENT. I wonder what Audi and other companies offer?

Again, thanks for a clear-eyed, thorough review.

 

[CKO]

Very cool and thorough review. I have a 2024 Audi Q8 etron prestige package, and love it as well. Came off of a lease with a Range Rover, which I have had for 3 different RR's as well as Porsche, BMW, and Hummer. All ICE vehicles. Wanted to save gas money on long ( 100 miles per day) commute to the office. Considering Range Rover EV but its not out yet and probably going to cost close to double an etron. Things I love about my etron , to add to the review above are the luxury aspects: heads up display, leather seats, heated and cooled, massage seats, soft closed doors, air suspension, bolster seats, interior cabin shade, wind screen when the sunroof is open, one foot activation to open back trunk by swiping undercarriage, memory seats, leather wrapped steering wheel, heated steering wheel, permanent all wheel drive/ quattro "4 wheel drive", silent inner cabin due to double pane glass, Bang and Olufsen sound system with many speakers bring the music alive, rear wiper blade, rain sensors, washer fluid for front headlamps, matrix LED headlamps with automatic dimming for approaching vehicles. Only issue so far has been range at level 2 home charger only around 210 miles , but was told by dealer that it is because we are in the winter time, and I use all of the awesome things mentioned above, so vehicle automatically averages the last 3 trips and tells you how much range you'll have based on your driving habits. Also an issue is first recall. cable connected wall outlet to Audi charger can overheat, so as a precaution we can only set charger to 50% as opposed to 100%. Hopefully that issue will be rectified soon. Still have my name on the cybertruck list but don't think I'll be going that route. Really impressed with the silent acceleration and cushy airsuspension of etron. Drag coefficient is around 2.7. Feels like a arrow propelling through the wind. Also last but not least can't forget the sound as you slow and take off. Sounds like a robot. Fittng name for an etron CKO-New Jersey